.357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

To learn and introduce new loaders. Tips and tricks from old timers.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Morne
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 10631
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:01 pm
Location: Wayne County

.357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

Post by Morne »

So while I LOVE Lil'Gun it is best suited to heavier bullets. Thus, in .357 Mag you don't use it for 125-gr slugs (and no data seems to be available for that reason). I recently won a gift certificate from X-Treme Bullets and used it to get myself a Xmas present of 500 125-gr copper-plated HP bullets for my .38/.357 loads.

I have Winchester small pistol primers in magnum flavor. I also have CCI-500 spps. My available powders are Bullseye, HS-6 and W-231 (ok, ok, I also have IMR PB but that looks to be the wrong application for it). Thoughts on which might work best? Going for speed, here.
Thus spoke Zarathustra.

Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.

Remember, only you can prevent big government!
User avatar
JustaShooter
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5800
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
Location: Akron/Canton Area

Re: .357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

Post by JustaShooter »

I don't remember, do they recommend jacketed or lead loading data for their plated bullets?
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
budman70
Posts: 63
Joined: Thu Nov 07, 2013 4:52 pm
Location: Jefferson County

Re: .357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

Post by budman70 »

Bullseye 6.5 min to 8.6 max Right out of the Lyman handbook. Keep extreme plated under 1500 cps and you're good. Hs6 9.8 to 10 to keep it around 1500 cps. 231 7.3 to 8.5. last 2 loads off Hodgson site. Damn auto correct.
Chu Lai 67-68
User avatar
Morne
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 10631
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:01 pm
Location: Wayne County

Re: .357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

Post by Morne »

JustaShooter wrote:I don't remember, do they recommend jacketed or lead loading data for their plated bullets?
My experience says they behave more like jacketed.
budman70 wrote:Keep extreme plated under 1500 cps and you're good.
I know they say to keep it under 1500 fps on their website but the reality is better than that. I've run their 150-gr .308 CPFP slugs up to 1700-ish fps without issue in a .300 AAC BLK. Some folks on one of the California gun forums claim that you don't actually see real problems of plating coming off early until 1900-ish fps.
Thus spoke Zarathustra.

Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.

Remember, only you can prevent big government!
User avatar
Sevens
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 7526
Joined: Thu May 07, 2009 8:30 am
Location: Far East Side of CBus

Re: .357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

Post by Sevens »

Two things to keep in mind... one is that while you can make some assumptions and associations between two different products by the same outfit, let us not forget that a rifle bullet is a different animal than a handgun bullet. I will definitely say that Xtreme probably leads the industry for plating thickness/durability and I have used a larger variety of plated slugs than most folks have I bet.

The other thing to remember is that when you push bullets fast in a revolver, you often need a good, solid roll crimp. The crimp holds an important role in allowing a slower burning powder to develop a proper start but it also becomes extremely important to keep the bullets from creeping forward under recoil. And the harder you push 'em (and lighter the revolver is...), the more you NEED the crimp.

And of course, a heavy roll crimp is a natural enemy to a plated bullet.
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
glocksmith
Posts: 3918
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:04 am
Location: Cincinnati/SW Ohio

Re: .357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

Post by glocksmith »

Morne - did you mic those copper plated bullets? I have some that are pushing .358 - and for some reason, I don't feel comfortable using them :?
Give em' Hell Pike!!!
User avatar
Morne
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 10631
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:01 pm
Location: Wayne County

Re: .357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

Post by Morne »

glocksmith wrote:Morne - did you mic those copper plated bullets? I have some that are pushing .358 - and for some reason, I don't feel comfortable using them :?
.3565
Thus spoke Zarathustra.

Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.

Remember, only you can prevent big government!
User avatar
Morne
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 10631
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:01 pm
Location: Wayne County

Re: .357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

Post by Morne »

Finally got to shoot some HS-6 loads with 125-gr X-Treme CPHP bullets loaded to 1.570-1.580" COAL [WSP(m) primer]. Chrony data:

Taurus 66 6" barrel:
9.9-grains HS-6 = avg 1034 fps; ES 78.9
10.2-grains HS-6 = avg 1093 fps; ES 103
10.5-grains HS-6 = avg 1153 fps; ES 78
10.8-grains HS-6 = avg 1166 fps; ES 136

Meteorological data 37 F, 70% RH, 30.11" Hg

I'm not really sure what to make of this data. That 10.8-gr loading was really all over the place with velocity, the ES alone doesn't tell the whole story. None of the 5-shots were close to the average, they were either right around 1100 fps or 1200 fps with a gaping chasm in between. :?: :idea:
Thus spoke Zarathustra.

Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.

Remember, only you can prevent big government!
User avatar
OhioPaints
Posts: 5666
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 4:22 pm
Location: Brown Co./ southern Ohio

Re: .357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

Post by OhioPaints »

I would take a wild guess that the variations on velocity are due to variations in the crimp/brass/bullet. Were the cases the same manufacturer and type? (brass vs. plated) Identical crimp will depend on the brass thickness and small variations in bullet size. How filled were the cases? If not full, then variations in powder placement for each round can make a difference. Were the cases sorted/matched by length? That will affect crimp and therefore developed pressure too.

Ken
User avatar
Morne
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 10631
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:01 pm
Location: Wayne County

Re: .357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

Post by Morne »

It was mixed brass. Crimped all at the same time with the same setting.
Thus spoke Zarathustra.

Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.

Remember, only you can prevent big government!
User avatar
OhioPaints
Posts: 5666
Joined: Sat May 13, 2006 4:22 pm
Location: Brown Co./ southern Ohio

Re: .357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

Post by OhioPaints »

Morne wrote:It was mixed brass. Crimped all at the same time with the same setting.
Which is what most of us usually shoot. However, such brass will have slightly different lengths, which will take more or less of the roll crimp. Likewise different manufacturers will have different wall thicknesses which will hold the crimp differently. With powders that are sensitive to pressure build up, these differences can result in significant variations in pressure.

Real serious target shooters sort their brass according to manufacturer, length, and even number of times each case is reloaded. I am not a serious target shooter.

Ken
User avatar
Morne
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 10631
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 9:01 pm
Location: Wayne County

Re: .357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

Post by Morne »

Neither am I.
Thus spoke Zarathustra.

Footsoldier in the Conservative Insurrection of the GOP.

Remember, only you can prevent big government!
User avatar
YoteHuntr
Posts: 174
Joined: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:44 am
Location: New Carlisle, Ohio

Re: .357 Mag 125-gr powder thoughts Bullseye/HS-6/W-231

Post by YoteHuntr »

glocksmith wrote:Morne - did you mic those copper plated bullets? I have some that are pushing .358 - and for some reason, I don't feel comfortable using them :?
Unless you have an exceedingly tight, or rough bore, you'll never notice a difference with 1/1000th of an inch. As long as they chamber without pinching the crimp, just start at the minimum powder charge, as usual, and work up watching for early pressure indications.
U.S.A.F. Retired (1974-1998)
NRA Endowment Life Member
OFCC Member
USCCA Member
Handloader 34 years
EDC Gun: Ruger LC9s, SR9c and/or LCP

Post Reply