Bullseye chrono data

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Bullseye chrono data

Postby Morne » Fri Sep 25, 2015 4:17 pm

Sevens had recommended Bullseye as a .38 Special powder. I loaded up 15 rounds of 2 different charge weights so as to run 5 shots each through 3 different barrel length guns. All loaded with Winchester small pistol primers (WSP) and 158-gr X-Treme copper-plated semi-wadcutters to roughly 1.445-1.453" COAL. Chrony data:

3.7-grains Bullseye:
Taurus 617 2" barrel = avg 703 fps; ES 43.8
Taurus 627 4" ported barrel = avg 726 fps; ES 63.9
Taurus 66 6" barrel = avg 693 fps; ES 94.9

4.0-grains Bullseye:
Taurus 617 2" barrel = avg 709 fps; ES 62.8
Taurus 627 4" ported barrel = avg 747 fps; ES 62.3
Taurus 66 6" barrel = avg 749 fps; ES 23.4

Meteorological data 80 F, 32% RH, 30.27" Hg

I find it interesting that the 6" barrel didn't get any gain over the 4". I suspect that the 6" gun has a looser cylinder to barrel gap than the others. Maybe Bullseye burns pretty fast, too?

I also found the variation in extreme spread (ES) between barrel lengths interesting. That the 6" barrel had both the worst and the best ES was perplexing.

I think the 4.0-gr is the better end for this powder/bullet/primer.

Oddly, I investigated this powder because I didn't like Red Dot all that well in .38 Special. Yet, 3.7-gr of Red Dot (with CCI-500 SPP) yielded much smaller ES with this same copper-plated bullet (although it had big variation with lead bullets). It also had similar velocity to 3.7-gr of Bullseye.

Perhaps I need to go to a higher powder charge weight? Or perhaps I should try a different primer like CCI-500 SPP or REM 1.5 SPP? :?: Guidance is being sought!
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Re: Bullseye chrono data

Postby Mr. Glock » Fri Sep 25, 2015 9:01 pm

Well, here's my guidance...put them in a S&W wheelgun and all problems solved. :twisted:
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Re: Bullseye chrono data

Postby Sevens » Sun Sep 27, 2015 7:16 pm

I run the same bullets at 3.6gr of Bullseye for my revolvers. I never have chrono'd that load. I found 3.4gr under the 158gr Xtreme LSWC to be very nice but lighter than I liked, and I found 3.8gr to be extremely good, but I lowered it to 3.6 and have stayed there with it.

I definitely would not change primers. I tune a load to the primer that I run, not the other way around. I know that precision rifle shooters will try different primers searching for a sweet spot, but I won't do that in handgun fodder.
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
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Re: Bullseye chrono data

Postby Morne » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:40 pm

Sevens wrote:I run the same bullets at 3.6gr of Bullseye for my revolvers. I never have chrono'd that load. I found 3.4gr under the 158gr Xtreme LSWC to be very nice but lighter than I liked, and I found 3.8gr to be extremely good, but I lowered it to 3.6 and have stayed there with it.

I definitely would not change primers. I tune a load to the primer that I run, not the other way around. I know that precision rifle shooters will try different primers searching for a sweet spot, but I won't do that in handgun fodder.

What primer are you using?
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Re: Bullseye chrono data

Postby Sevens » Sun Sep 27, 2015 8:51 pm

CCI-500 is my primer of choice for every .38 Special that I own.

I do, however, make a run of ammo that is very specific for one revolver... a 1956 Smith & Wesson pre-Model 10 custom PPC revolver. That revolver simply demands the -far- easier to spark Federal Small Pistol, so I feed the Federal primer ONLY to that revolver and no other.

FWIW, I also build every single one of my .357 Magnum loads with the CCI-400 Small Rifle (non-mag) primer.
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
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Re: Bullseye chrono data

Postby Morne » Thu Dec 31, 2015 12:05 pm

Chrony data (all .38 Spl 158-gr CPSWC with COAL AROUND 1.450"):

3.7-grains Bullseye:
CCI-500 SPP
Taurus 617 2" barrel = avg 674 fps; ES 47.9
Taurus 627 4" ported barrel = avg 674 fps; ES 20.0
Taurus 66 6" barrel = avg 644 fps; ES 71.3

3.7-grains Bullseye:
Rem 1.5 SPP
Taurus 617 2" barrel = avg 668 fps; ES 66.9
Taurus 627 4" ported barrel = avg 628 fps; ES 81.7
Taurus 66 6" barrel = avg 624 fps; ES 41.2

I have also loaded up some 4.0-gr Bullseye loads with all 3 primers (CCI-500 SPP, WSP, Rem 1.5 SPP) to see how they play out. I expect 4.0 to work better. Will report data when available.
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Re: Bullseye chrono data

Postby Anvil Jenkins » Thu Feb 25, 2016 9:06 am

5 rounds is not statistically valid to evaluate ES, so I would not get too wrapped around the axle about that stat based on 5 rounds :-).

Practical Application #1: Evaluating Muzzle Velocities
Standard deviation is hard to estimate with precision.
When you shoot five shots, and measure something about them, you are taking a sample.
From the sample, you hope to make some estimate of what the firearm will do in the long
run, over many shots. Since you are dealing with a sample, your estimate of the long
term performance will be imperfect, though it may be precise enough to be useful.
Suppose that a reloader is unwisely carried away with getting the standard deviation of
his handloads down to nothing. He fires five shots, and chronographs each at 2960,
3002, 2982, 2976, and 2981 fps, calculates the standard deviation, 15.04 fps, and feels
very pleased that his handloads are so consistent. But are they?
It is true enough that his sample of five has a standard deviation of 15.04, but what does
that tell us about the long-term performance of his loading technique? If we repeated this
same test 100 times, using exactly the same components and methods, then about 95
times out of that 100, we would find a standard deviation between 9.77 and 35.68.
Statistically, we say that the true, long term standard deviation could easily be anywhere
in that range. So, based on a sample of five, the shooter who thinks he has a superb
standard deviation could actually have a standard deviation as high as 35.68, which is
about typical for commercial ammunition. It was just his lucky day. The five shots he
fired happened to be very close to each other, just by luck of the draw.
The reloader that does not recognize this can easily end up chasing phantoms. One day,
he shoots test shots, and is very happy with his result. The next, things seem to have
“gone to pot”, and he can’t figure out what he is doing wrong. The fact is that nothing
has necessarily changed.


https://www.shootingsoftware.com/ftp/Pe ... f%20SD.pdf
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Re: Bullseye chrono data

Postby JustaShooter » Fri Feb 26, 2016 7:13 am

Anvil Jenkins wrote:5 rounds is not statistically valid to evaluate ES, so I would not get too wrapped around the axle about that stat based on 5 rounds :-).

I think you meant SD, correct?
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Re: Bullseye chrono data

Postby Morne » Sat Mar 05, 2016 1:31 pm

Chrony data (all .38 Spl 158-gr CPSWC with COAL around 1.450"):

4.0-grains Bullseye:
CCI-500 SPP
Taurus 617 2" barrel = avg 659 fps; ES 51.2
Taurus 627 4" ported barrel = avg 671 fps; ES 126.1
Taurus 66 6" barrel = avg 665 fps; ES 120.5

4.0-grains Bullseye:
Rem 1.5 SPP
Taurus 617 2" barrel = avg 698 fps; ES 41
Taurus 627 4" ported barrel = avg 670 fps; ES 63.4
Taurus 66 6" barrel = avg 691 fps; ES 78.2

This data wasn't any better than the previous data with WSP and 4.0-gr Bullseye, thus I think I'll stick with that recipe for a Bullseye .38 Spl load.
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Re: Bullseye chrono data

Postby Morne » Mon Nov 07, 2016 10:57 am

Decided to try Bullseye in some .45 ACP loads with Winchester WLP and 230-gr Delta Precision FMJ bullets:

64 F, 46% RH, 30.34" Hg
Springfield Armory XDS with 3.3" barrel

Powder Charge________Average Velocity
4.9 grains_____________676 fps
5.2 grains_____________720 fps
5.4 grains_____________737 fps
5.6 grains_____________762 fps

My chrony was giving me fits so I didn't get all 5 rounds from each recipe; thus I am omitting ES reporting this time around. The one recipe where I did get all 5 data points (the lightest load) was very reasonable at an ES of 30.4.

I think that 4.9 grain load is good to go.
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