Good source for lead bullets

[Morne]

So as I am figuring out what all I need to get into Cowboy Action Shooting I know that I need lead bullets. This is somewhat uncharted territory for me as everything I have reloaded thus far has been either plated or jacketed. I went to my favorite bullet supplier's website only to discover that their 125-gr .38 Spl lead bullets were more expensive than many other sources. I don't mind paying more for quality but it was my understanding that X-Treme's competitive edge was in their copper plating thickness which obviously doesn't apply to lead bullets:
X-Treme Bullets

Other possible sources:
Badman Bullets
Rim Rock Bullets

Thus, I thought I'd see what source everybody else here prefers.

Note that I am not completely wedded to the 125-gr RNFP choice. The criteria here is that it be fairly light for reduced recoil (eventually my son will shoot this sport with me) and feed well in my lever gun. A buddy casts some 105-gr SWC that I am going to load up and try. I doubt that using a true wadcutter will work in the lever gun. Truncated Cone (TC) nose profiles might work. This guy seems to have every oddball weight and profile available:

Matt's Bullets

Thoughts? Who do you buy lead bullets from?

No, I'm not going to start casting my own. Not yet, anyway...

[Whirlwind06]

I buy hard-cast bullets from Dardas Cast Bullets http://www.dardascastbullets.com/mm5/me ... ode=dardas" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; not sure if they would work with cowboy action shooting.

[Sevens]

I also have had great experience with Dardas and Matt is a top-notch guy. Admittedly, I have not bought from him recently as I have pretty much transitioned away from cast lead and done some serious volume purchasing in plated slugs. I did buy a decent pile of .44cal 240's for mild steel plate loads and I found those bullets at Falcon and I can also genuinely recommend these fine folks. Small operation kind of customer service and a fantastic product, definitely give them a look.

One other slight drift...
I've loaded what must by now be tens of thousands of .38 Special over decades. It is where I started with my first round. And though my experience with cast lead is not great and my experience with cowboy action/SASS amount to -zero-, I will say from a general standpoint that .38 Special just seems to be a happier, healthy and more natural round with a 158gr bullet.

Huge case volume leads to erratic results with some powders and it's exacerbated with light loads. The 158 naturally eats more of that space and the longer bearing surface tends to give more accuracy too when all else is equal. In SASS -- speed is king, so low recoil, low muzzle flip is highly desired and 125's may be that answer so I can't sit here and claim it isn't... but still wanted to share that after piles and piles of .38s down range -- the best .38 shooting for me is always going to be a 158gr of some kind.

[Morne]

I like heavier for caliber bullets in general. So yes, all my plated stuff is 158-gr for 38/357. Those are my practice rounds for my modern guns (with 158-gr .357 Mag GDHP being my normal carry load in the Rhinos).

There's something else I am up against here and that is COAL. See, the lever gun I bought only holds nine (9) factory FMJ 130-gr .38 Specials (each measuring 1.470" COAL). I need it to hold ten (10) for the matches. Thus, I need to shorten the COAL for my CAS load to be about 1.323". I figure that going to a lighter bullet weight will help that, too. Might not even have to go all the way to 1.323" COAL, since with nine (9) in the tube I can still shove a half of the tenth round into the loading gate before it stops cold.

Good news is that, as you point out, the internal volume of a .38 Special is CAVERNOUS. This is especially true with the light loads typically used in CAS. Thus, I am not very worried about losing some casing room seating the bullets in deeper. When you stop to consider what the old double-ended wadcutters did to the internal volume of these cases there's really not much heartburn.

[buckeye43210]

I think Hi-Tek coated bullets are now SASS legal. So, have a look at Bayou Bullets, Missouri Bullet Company, SNS Cast Bullets, Gateway Bullets, etc.

[shooterwolf]

I think Hi-Tek coated bullets are now SASS legal. So, have a look at Bayou Bullets, .

I've dealt with Bayou Bullets, good prices, good product and good service. The owner is Donny Miculek, Jerry's brother.



S.W.

[buckeye43210]

Don't know if it's a requirement or not, but a lot of SASS shooters seem to prefer RNFP (Round Nose Flat Point) bullets. Supposedly this reduces the chances of a chain reaction in the rifle's tubular magazine.

[Babyboomer]

Only one place I will buy lead bullets is http://www.precisionbullets.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; They won't lead up your barrel. They have a coating on them and they show the lead melting while the coating stays intact.

[Sevens]

I've dealt with Bayou Bullets, good prices, good product and good service. The owner is Donny Miculek, Jerry's brother.

I did not know that. More evidence that this group/family is shooting royalty! Jerry married Kay Clark, daughter of the legendary guncrafter Jim Clark.

Their personal life is not something that needs to be researched, but I hope they had a bunch of kids and I hope all those children are shooters!

[SMMAssociates]

Morne:

I've been dealing with Mastercast in Enon Valley PA for quite a while.

Mike's no longer selling loaded (well, reloaded) ammunition, but often has all kinds of supplies in stock.

Genuine mom & pop, plus a couple of beagles to pet while you're waiting ....

http://www.mastercast.net/ftp.mastercas ... lcome.html

(They're about 30 minutes away from me - on PA 51, just inside the PA line from OH.)

Regards,

[Morne]

Good news!

I loaded up ten (10) of the 105-gr SWCs my buddy cast awhile back. I seated a tad deeper than the crimp groove, which would've been about 1.430" COAL, instead going to about 1.390" COAL. All ten (10) went into the tube!!! They also fed fine when run through the lever action. Haven't shot them yet (it's disturbingly cold) but they have 3.1-gr Red Dot behind them (CCI-500 SPP). Looking into the case after charging them it is easy to see there is a LOT of space to spare.

Thus, I think anything in the roughly 100-grain weight and with either a SWC or TC nose profile should work. My buddy recommended I try Badman Bullets' 105-gr TFP but I also like the looks of their 100-gr RNFP.

[BigV]

I have been purchasing my lead bullets from Quality Cast in Magadore for years.
He casts them in his garage and sells to all FFF locations.
You can pick them up at his house.
Very reasonable price.
His phone number is on his web site as well as a price list.
http://www.qualitycastllc.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[Sevens]

I seated a tad deeper than the crimp groove, which would've been about 1.430" COAL, instead going to about 1.390" COAL. All ten (10) went into the tube!!! They also fed fine when run through the lever action. Haven't shot them yet (it's disturbingly cold) but they have 3.1-gr Red Dot behind them (CCI-500 SPP). Looking into the case after charging them it is easy to see there is a LOT of space to spare.

Just playing Devil's Advocate for a moment. And admitting up front that I come from a position where I have experienced this -- but have very little "experience" on the subject to speak of...

When you test these loads, try this:

For first shot, tip the revolver skyward to let the powder fall backward toward the primer, then carefully lower the gun to shoot
For next shot, tip the revolver to the ground to let the powder charge fall forward to the base of the slug
For other shots, let powder fall wherever your movement takes it (most likely shooting you will do, obviously)

Especially with the help of a chrono, you may find that the results are disturbing, and it is all related to the large volume of empty space and a powder charge that is fractional in comparison.

FWIW, some folks have found better results using a filler of some manner. (dacron fiber, oatmeal, corn meal, styrofoam cut-outs)
Gunscribe Mike Venturino (who has done many years of casting and handload testing in LARGE volume, low-pressure rounds) came to the conclusion some time back that Hodgdon Titegroup is a phenomenal powder when it comes to ignoring the large space and "powder placement" inside the round.

My experience has been that it's so erratic that I find it to be a genuine problem and I very specifically look for such a situation and I find a way to address it. But again, I simply don't load a lot of cast lead and the bullets being cast lead is very likely a LARGE part of the results you may get. Or to put that another way, I would much rather be doing things like this with a cast lead or even a softer swaged lead bullet.

You may also consider IMR Trail Boss, a powder that was built very specifically for exactly these kinds of loads and geared very much toward Cowboy Action shooting.

I'll be looking forward to hearing your test results.

[WY_Not]

Trail Boss was developed to be used in many of the cartridges that were originally black powder loads. The stuff is great in the .45LC loads I've worked up. It fills the case very well so that you don't have to do the kabuki dance of tipping your firearm one way or the other to get consistent results. It is also nearly impossible to double charge the cases when reloading.

Most of the rounds I worked up were using the 250gr lead RNFP bullets from Laser Cast. Also worked up some .45LC shot shells using the shot holders from Speer. Great little snake rounds for the SAA.

[SMMAssociates]

Cavernous cases:

(My apologies if I've posted this before....)

A buddy with all kinds of 9mm and .45ACP experience bought a new Ruger. GP100? About the same size & such as a K-frame Smith.

The gun's a .357, but he bought some .38's to just get the feel of it.

So, Mike gets on the range and looks at the overall length of the .38Spl cartridge, and decides that it was going to really hurt. One huge case....

With great trepidation, he pulled the trigger. The gun sort of did a loud poof.... Quick hangfire check (projectile still in barrel and such) and he fires again with the same result.

He killed off the box of cartridges about the time I got there. I had to explain that it was a black powder cartridge, and had to be that big to work well, but you sort of just waved the case around under the powder measure with smokeless, rather than come even close to filling it....

Regards,