Determining factory load vs. reload
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- TJW815
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Determining factory load vs. reload
Can anyone tell me is it possible to determine if a round is a factory load or a reload?
- JustaShooter
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
What do I have to work with? Unfired cartridge? Almost certainly. Fired brass & recovered bullet? Probably, and if I have a forensic lab at my disposal, almost certainly.
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- HancockCountyHAl
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
Possible indicators to look for:
Scratches on the case from resizing?
A Winchester primer in a Blazer Brass casing?
Extractor marks on the rim?
Chamfered case neck?
Reamed primer pocket?
Powder type?
Bullet type?
Scratches on the case from resizing?
A Winchester primer in a Blazer Brass casing?
Extractor marks on the rim?
Chamfered case neck?
Reamed primer pocket?
Powder type?
Bullet type?
HancockCountyHaL
- TJW815
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
Loaded cartridgesJustaShooter wrote:What do I have to work with? Unfired cartridge? Almost certainly. Fired brass & recovered bullet? Probably, and if I have a forensic lab at my disposal, almost certainly.
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Reason I ask: I acquired 700 rounds of ammo in addition to a weapon in a trade. Most of the ammo was fresh in box ammo still "sealed". About 100 rounds was not. It's a mix of Winchester, PMC, and Federal. The mixed bag has me wondering. I don't want to shoot someones reload. To many people that cant read a scale!
- JustaShooter
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
As HancockCountyHAl posted, there are many external characteristics of reloaded ammunition.
If I had any doubts after a careful and close external examination, I'd then compare the suspect rounds with factory loaded rounds - take those loose Federal rounds and compare them to a known-factory Federal round. Look at the cartridge shape for instance - especially with handgun ammunition the sizing die produces a very different profile of the brass than a factory round. Look at the primers - are they the same color, seated the same, are the edges the same roundness, any sealants used, etc. Look at the necks - do the crimps look the same, is there an external bevel at the mouth, etc. Look at the bullets - are the profiles the same, is there a cannelure, are the bullets seated to the cannelure, etc (this one is more difficult because you have to have the correct factory load, and there are often many factory loadings for the same cartridge).
Finally, you can disassemble a suspect round and factory round and compare the powder, primer (look at the color of the priming material inside the cup, etc), and look for soot inside the brass.
If I had any doubts after a careful and close external examination, I'd then compare the suspect rounds with factory loaded rounds - take those loose Federal rounds and compare them to a known-factory Federal round. Look at the cartridge shape for instance - especially with handgun ammunition the sizing die produces a very different profile of the brass than a factory round. Look at the primers - are they the same color, seated the same, are the edges the same roundness, any sealants used, etc. Look at the necks - do the crimps look the same, is there an external bevel at the mouth, etc. Look at the bullets - are the profiles the same, is there a cannelure, are the bullets seated to the cannelure, etc (this one is more difficult because you have to have the correct factory load, and there are often many factory loadings for the same cartridge).
Finally, you can disassemble a suspect round and factory round and compare the powder, primer (look at the color of the priming material inside the cup, etc), and look for soot inside the brass.
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- TJW815
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
On the winchester, the bullet looks very brassy(?), fairly well matches the casing.
- Gaspode
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
Man, if you're in doubt set it aside to either pull down yourself or have a buddy who reloads do it. It's only 100 rounds.TJW815 wrote:On the winchester, the bullet looks very brassy(?), fairly well matches the casing.
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- TJW815
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
Sorry, just trying to learn something.Gaspode wrote:Man, if you're in doubt set it aside to either pull down yourself or have a buddy who reloads do it. It's only 100 rounds.TJW815 wrote:On the winchester, the bullet looks very brassy(?), fairly well matches the casing.
- Gaspode
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
And you just did. Some people, and I would include myself in this category as well as a few others that load on here, can make rifle ammunition that looks exactly like factory made. If not better.TJW815 wrote:Sorry, just trying to learn something.Gaspode wrote:Man, if you're in doubt set it aside to either pull down yourself or have a buddy who reloads do it. It's only 100 rounds.TJW815 wrote:On the winchester, the bullet looks very brassy(?), fairly well matches the casing.
As I said, if your in doubt, set it aside. There's no true way to tell if it was handloaded or not. It could be loaded in virgin brass which means no nicks or pull marks on the rim. The bullets could be factory new and not pull downs which mean no marks from an air puller or a collet die. The primers could be O.E.M. Primers which mean they're copper instead of nickel.
Also since it was lose there's nothing saying the cases couldn't of rubbed up against each other and caused lateral scratches maring the brass.
Pride is all well and good. But a sausage is a sausage.
All humans are vermin in the eyes of Morbo.
All humans are vermin in the eyes of Morbo.
- TJW815
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
Had already been set aside, else I wouldn't have asked
I suppose it's all the same, but my inquiry was in regards to pistol ammunition. I don't think I specified originally so my bad on that one.
I suppose it's all the same, but my inquiry was in regards to pistol ammunition. I don't think I specified originally so my bad on that one.
- JustaShooter
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
Exactly why I said "almost certainly" in my first post - If someone set out to make a handload that looked like factory the way you describe it would be difficult indeed. But, since most factory loads use proprietary powder formulations you might still be able to tell by pulling them apart and comparing powder. But considering there are few handloaders who have as a goal to make ammo that looks like factory, I'd bet that 99% of the time you can tell.Gaspode wrote:Some people, and I would include myself in this category as well as a few others that load on here, can make rifle ammunition that looks exactly like factory made. If not better.
As I said, if your in doubt, set it aside. There's no true way to tell if it was handloaded or not. It could be loaded in virgin brass which means no nicks or pull marks on the rim. The bullets could be factory new and not pull downs which mean no marks from an air puller or a collet die. The primers could be O.E.M. Primers which mean they're copper instead of nickel.
Also since it was lose there's nothing saying the cases couldn't of rubbed up against each other and caused lateral scratches maring the brass.
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- Gaspode
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
My fault for assuming anyone would care enough about pistol rounds to not just set them back or even toss them. I assumed they were rifle or expensive from the way they were mentioned in the post.JustaShooter wrote:Exactly why I said "almost certainly" in my first post - If someone set out to make a handload that looked like factory the way you describe it would be difficult indeed. But, since most factory loads use proprietary powder formulations you might still be able to tell by pulling them apart and comparing powder. But considering there are few handloaders who have as a goal to make ammo that looks like factory, I'd bet that 99% of the time you can tell.Gaspode wrote:Some people, and I would include myself in this category as well as a few others that load on here, can make rifle ammunition that looks exactly like factory made. If not better.
As I said, if your in doubt, set it aside. There's no true way to tell if it was handloaded or not. It could be loaded in virgin brass which means no nicks or pull marks on the rim. The bullets could be factory new and not pull downs which mean no marks from an air puller or a collet die. The primers could be O.E.M. Primers which mean they're copper instead of nickel.
Also since it was lose there's nothing saying the cases couldn't of rubbed up against each other and caused lateral scratches maring the brass.
Pride is all well and good. But a sausage is a sausage.
All humans are vermin in the eyes of Morbo.
All humans are vermin in the eyes of Morbo.
- TJW815
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
The price of the rounds is inconsequential to the question. The OP was a simple question of if differences can be determined. Regardless to if they were cheap 9mm range fodder or 50BMG rounds. Besides why waste any ammo of you can avoid it?
- Klingon00
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
Extractor marks and scratches are tell tale signs as others have said but if virgin brass was used it may not have them. Also mixed brands of brass and different primer and/or bullet from what is factory standard. Powder may also be a tell if you compare them. Finally inspect the crimp if one exists. The type and amount of crimp may be different from factory ammo.
If there is any doubt about the safety of the ammo, you can pull the components (if you don't want to waste) and reload them using known quantities.
If you don't care about waste or don't have the ability to reload you can trash them.
Some make it their goal to exactly match factory ammo, and it could be very difficult to tell the difference if that is the case.
If there is any doubt about the safety of the ammo, you can pull the components (if you don't want to waste) and reload them using known quantities.
If you don't care about waste or don't have the ability to reload you can trash them.
Some make it their goal to exactly match factory ammo, and it could be very difficult to tell the difference if that is the case.
- WY_Not
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Re: Determining factory load vs. reload
Ack! Don't do that. Give it to someone who does reload and can put it to good use.
Klingon00 wrote:If you don't care about waste or don't have the ability to reload you can trash them.
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