Your first reloading press?

[Sevens]

Mr. Glock asked about a good press to explore for getting started in this game, so let's use this thread to talk about where we started or where we WOULD start now if we knew then what we know now!

Interesting you mentioned the turret press as a good starter, EP...from my reading I was leaning that way. Is there an acknowledged better brand or is this a Ford vs Chevy thing?

I agree with Evan Price that it's a terrific place to start for sure. But first, to the Ford/Chevy thing. And yes, you hit the nail on the head. Lee is often the red-headed step-child of the industry. Lee always has the lowest price for comparable tools of all the brands. (*NOTE) Lee absolutely uses "inferior" materials wherever they can and this saves costs & lowers the prices. But keep in mind that "inferior" materials will always be so, but in some/many places -- it works JUST FINE and you end up with perfectly well-running tools that give fantastic service. And there are many who simply won't ever be convinced of this and spending even half a minute trying on them is like pushing water uphill.

When it comes to a press... Lyman, Redding, RCBS, Hornady and Dillon all make a "better" press than Lee does, but that fact doesn't tell you whether the Lee is "good enough" or if it works or what kind of service it offers or any of that.

My first press was an O-frame Lee, the Challenger in 1989. And I put it through a heap of use until I had kids and I got away from handloading and then a damp basement & mouse infestation attacked it over a period of years. Even through that, I rescued it & cleaned it up and made it functional once again. I don't use it these days, but it's on my bench. I replaced it with a Lee Classic Cast, but this was before the Lee Classic Turret hit the market.

The Classic Turret is, in my hands-on opinion, the very best deal in a press on the market today. It's robust and sturdy as hell and it's design beats every other turret press sold by any other manufacturer simply because of the turret design. With the LCT, replacement turrets costs $10-$15 each and swap in/out of the press in 1.5 seconds. Every other "turret" press on the market by the other manufacturers either uses a gargantuan turret that is non-replaceable or extremely cost prohibitive for multiple turrets, and not easily or quickly swappable. If you buy a LCT, you should get an extra turret for each and every caliber you EVER add and all your dies remain set where you need them and you change calibers in SECONDS. No other press comes near that flexibility except the old-school original Lee Turret Press, which is cheaper, older-tech and not as strong as the LCT.

*NOTE! There is a newish "brand" in this game and it needs to be avoided for all the right reasons. Please do not get sucked in to the yellow painted "SmartReloader" products no matter what you see, read, or how low the price is, no matter WHICH item it is. These are all rip-off products directly from China with many specific rip-off examples found. They reverse engineered known products and copied them exactly (and shoddily) and brought them here for cheap money. Buying any of their crap not only gets you awful products, but it supports outright piracy from the great American companies that developed the gear. Two examples of specifics are one of their presses actually copied a casting flaw in the original Lyman press they copied and the Berry's folks out west watched them directly copy their fine media separator 100% after they managed to get a hold of one from a trade show. In a more perfect world, all of the greatest reloading gear wholesalers and retailers in our hobby would start a full bore SmartReloader embargo. That stuff is WORSE than wasting your money on a bad product... buying any of it supports an activity that willfully harms the industry.

[Sevens]

Back to the Ford/Chevy!

Lee makes a number of fine products and they also make some products that simply are not the best choice of what's available, but in just about any/every case I can think of, they have the most attractive price. I prefer their reloading dies over all others, but I do mostly handgun calibers. I happen to own RCBS, Lyman, Lee and Pacific dies. (Pacific was before Hornady bought them and re-branded) I like and can use them all, but Lee is my first choice in handgun dies. I admit that I have not used the modern day Hornady dies that get fine reviews. And if I were loading more rifle, I could see a fine case for the very expensive Redding dies, but in handgun dies? I'm truly picking Lee first every time and I get the added bonus of them being the lowest in price across the board.

However, Lee makes other products that "may" be good enough for some folks, but they simply can't compete with other brands. The Lee Perfect Powder Measure and/or the Lee Auto-Disk Powder Measure certainly work for many people, but I won't use them. I got a few years of quality use from the Lee Perfect and I upgraded to a Hornady and then to a Lyman. But beware the price differences here and you'll see why the market does have a place for some of the Lee tools. If you can't afford $80 for an RCBS powder measure and like $25 more for the ignorant stand, then $25 on a Lee Perfect is way better than having no powder measure, let me tell ya.

And the Lee Safety Scale is made totally of plastic and aluminum. It's extremely low in price, it's well made and BELIEVE IT, it's hella-accurate. Anyone that says it's not accurate simply doesn't know how to USE it. But it's very difficult to use, it's not fast or fun to use and your money is better spent elsewhere. However, if the budget can't afford $75-$250 for a great scale, the Lee Safety Scale is a no-brainer at $25 because it WORKS and you can make safe handloads with it far better than you can make loads with -NO- scale.

[Sevens]

You are definitely going to find some folks who have been loading for 3 years, 10 years or 50 years that will tell you firmly that Lee is junk and should be avoided, but I'm sure they are wrong when they lay that down across the board without having used some of Lee's best products. And for folks who want to get started and are trying to figure out the budget necessary to get rolling, Lee products have gotten countless people in to this ballgame that otherwise couldn't have gotten a start on their budget.

In almost every different tool, you can spend more money and buy a competing product from RCBS, Lyman, Redding or Hornady that's better than Lee. However, IMO, you simply cannot do that with a turret press from anyone. And in the case of many other products, the Lee version works awfully well and the difference in price isn't just a couple of bucks, it's a lot.

[JediSkipdogg]

Well said Sevens. One should listen to him if they want any advice on reloading as so far he hasn't steered me wrong. I own three presses (technically speaking.) I have a Lee Classic Turret, a Lee Pro 1000, and a Dillon (forget which model, it's at my friend's house as I ran out of space for it.)

Let me first add some info on setting them up. Both of my Lee's use 3 hole turrets. I load five different calibers an have all five set up in each of their own turrets. I also have five powder measures. I can essentially switch a caliber out in less than a minute (this is dies, turret plate, powder drop, shell holder). With die set, each caliber was less then $60. Try that with some other brands on the market. My Dillon, just to swap a die set out is in the area of $125-$150 and takes more than five minutes. You may think this is not important but when you start loading more than one caliber you will realize how much of a pain swapping parts out can be. If you simply swap out the die set only, you have to basically work your load over again. Everything is precise in hand loading and it takes time to make sure you are dropping the same amount of powder as last time and that your bullet is seated to the same depth. Keeping the "frame" the same for all calibers and simply swapping the turret and plate carrier out makes loading a snap.

Now, with regards to malfunctions. I think every press can have them. I've had problems on all three presses with regards to broken parts at one point. Dillon by far was the worst and easiest to fix. Their customer service is outstanding and they sent the replacement parts to me for free. However, their machine still broke. So spending five times a Lee doesn't mean it won't break. With my Lee on the other hand, I had to find a site to buy them from and purchase the parts myself. However, I bought lots of spares and now have pretty much enough spare parts to replace all the working internals of the Lee, all for a lot cheaper than any other press on the market still. If I had a CNC machine, I'd manufacture their little plastic gears out of metal.

For a beginner, I recommend Lee. If you've never drive a car before do you go out and by a Lamborghini or do you start with a Chevrolet? What if you don't like loading, now you have a lot of extras on your hands to get rid of. I believe Lee is the easiest to sell online since the cost is low and people won't mind taking a gamble spending a little money.

[BobK]

My first reloading press was the Lee Loadmaster.

My first 300 rounds of .44 magnum paid for my press and all the accessories. The next 20,000+ rounds were all "gravy".

In terms of quality, I am not too impressed with Lyman. Virtually everything I've gotten from Lyman in the last 10 year required factory service/replacement.

I agree with Sevens on the scales. I've tried a few digitals, but have always returned to using my Redding balance beam scale.

Also, Jedi makes a good point about replacement parts. Every part for Lee presses is available online, even replacement frames. You could literally purchase all the parts separately and make your own press (although it is cheaper -- duh -- to buy the complete press kit). Back to the parts, probably 35% are under $2.50, another 35% are under $6.00, another 20% under $10, and the last 10% are in the $25 range. In other words, you can have a LOT of spare parts for little investment. I probably averaged $20 per year in stocking spares.

[Sevens]

All of my Lyman tools and dies are old and I have also heard reports that newer Lyman stuff has often seen QC issues.

Of all the tools and equipment that I have gathered over a couple decades that I use to make ammo, there is ONE single unit that I would run out of my house with in a fire if I get to choose that tool. It's my Lyman 55 powder measure. I bought it used for a steal of a price at an outdoor gun show and I believe it was made in the late 70s or early 80s. As far as I am concerned, it's the most important part of my operation and it's the finest single piece of handloading tool/device that I own.

With this experience, I highly recommended a Lyman 55 to a buddy who was starting out and he bought a new one and it had to go BACK to Lyman because something was out of spec. Mea culpa. He got it back, fixed, but his confidence in it was (rightfully) spooked and he sold it, replacing it with a Hornady measure.

I used a Hornady measure for ~10 years and the FIRST time I tried my Lyman 55 was the last day I used the Hornady, and that must have been 5 years ago. The Hornady stood there bolted to my bench for a year before I finally got it out of my way.

[Brian D.]

My dad and I went in together on a Dillon 550 many years ago. Between us we loaded perhaps 20 different calibers, so a progressive seemed like what we needed right from the start.

At first we put our heads together to figure out how to run the press, plus we used the Dillon 1-800 telephone number when we were stuck or puzzled. At the time Dillon was the only reloading company offering both a toll free number, plus a complete unconditional warranty on the products.

[JustaShooter]

Sevens flat-out nailed with respect to Lee products. I started out on a second-hand Lee Pro 1000 3-stage progressive press (not knowing conventional wisdom was that I should have started on a single-stage ) and it was (and is) a great press - in fact, it is still the core of my reloading equipment. Their equipment is far less expensive than the competition and for 90% or more of the reloaders out there are more than sufficient. Their presses are great and their dies are wonderful - the powder-through expander die in a turret press is the way to go. But as he says, if you can manage to swing the cash for a better scale and powder measure, avoid the Lee Safety Scale and Perfect Powder Measure.

I'll differ with him on the Lee Auto-Disk powder measure though. I love mine for most powders, but fine ball powders like H110 leak badly enough that it can jam things up and cause low or even no charges in the case. But after buying the Auto-Disk Pro I couldn't be happier, even those fine ball powders meter well and the very minor leaking isn't a problem, and every other powder I use have no problems at all. With the Auto-Disk or Auto-Disk Pro mounted in the powder-through expanding dies I couldn't imagine it being any better or easier. I have one of those keychain LED lights on a magnetic mount shining into the case just after the powder stage so I can verify the charge, but if you have enough stages in your press they make special dies that can keep the press from advancing if the charge is too low or too high. I've not tried one since I only have 3 stages and need all three for other purposes.

So my setup today is a separate turret for the Pro 1000 for every caliber I reload, and a separate carrier and shell plate as well. Setup and caliber changes take maybe 5 minutes total. (I hear of setup times of a half-hour or longer for other progressive presses and I just chuckle.) I'm thinking of adding an Auto-Disk Pro for each setup as well, but my storage system won't accommodate it, and the disk changeover is easy enough I may not do that. In addition to to the Lee Pro 1000, I picked up an RCBS Rock Chucker II for bigger calibers (the Lee Pro 1000 tops out at .223 length or so cases so I needed something else for my .30-06) and if I ever need to re-form one case into another. I use an RCBS 505 beam scale to weigh powder to verify the Lee Auto-Disk, etc. I too don't like the electronic scales, they are just too finicky.

[JustaShooter]

JediSkipdogg, you mentioned both of your Lee presses use 4-hole turrets, and it sounded like the Lee Pro 1000 was set up that was as well - is there a conversion or upgrade kit? Mine only runs the 3-hole turrets, and I can't see how a 4-hole turret would work with the way everything functions - but then, I'm not an engineer so I could be missing something.

[JediSkipdogg]

JediSkipdogg, you mentioned both of your Lee presses use 4-hole turrets, and it sounded like the Lee Pro 1000 was set up that was as well - is there a conversion or upgrade kit? Mine only runs the 3-hole turrets, and I can't see how a 4-hole turret would work with the way everything functions - but then, I'm not an engineer so I could be missing something.

My bad, 3 hole. Not sure why I was thinking 4 holes.

Oh, and one area I do have to disagree with Sevens on is SmartReloader. I do avoid all their products EXCEPT their ammo boxes. By far the best and cheapest ammo boxes I have found. I think around $3 each and they are very durable.

[Mr. Glock]

Great stuff here, thanks. I'm not looking to pump out thousands of rounds, just play around with stuff that is a little oddball. I'm thinking of starting with 44spl/44 mag or 10mm.

I've been enjoying the Lee book as it has good information, and he is an old-timey salesman. Lee Classic turret seems to fit the bill, but I'm hearing you on the other items....what about recommendations on the powder measure or scale?

I can swing the money, but don't want to get stupid for dipping my toes in the water in this part of the hobby. I also don't want to have to build a ship in a bottle every time I measure something... Ease of use makes it more fun.

[Sevens]

Oh, and one area I do have to disagree with Sevens on is SmartReloader. I do avoid all their products EXCEPT their ammo boxes. By far the best and cheapest ammo boxes I have found. I think around $3 each and they are very durable.

Awww Bro, you can't possibly miss my point!
If you buy those boxes, it doesn't matter if the sun shines every day and your car's gas mileage improves. At it's very core, you're supporting the SmartReloader people. And those people are godawful modern pirates. I can hose things off the nethercrevices of my body that deserve far more love & respect than anyone associated with that brand.

So their boxes may work for you, but it was BERRY'S that (in my opinion) perfected the flip-top plastic ammo box, and I've never handled the SmartReloader brand box, but if it's anything like their brass/media separator, I'll bet I know what it's like: it's probably directly STOLEN from Berry's. Berry's-- the fine folks that have supplied me with a great product at a fair price and fantastic service and people I would probably drink beers with if I lived near 'em. Folks that don't deserve to have their ideas blatantly ripped off by a cheap Chinese company.
(this rant works better with some patriotic music playing in the background)

[Sevens]

Lee Auto Disk and Pro Auto Disk powder measure: to be clear, I own two and have never used either. My beef with them is that they are fixed cavity dispensers. I play with -FAR- too many different charge weights and -FAR- too many different powders to settle for a unit with fixed chambers. And yep, some people find a chamber a wee-bit too small, bore the hole out until it's "perfect" and then go with it, but my Lyman 55 handles my powder, so I won't spend any time interviewing or getting 'hands-on' with the Lee measures. Just my view from this load bench. They are extremely popular devices. Much like the Lee Safety Scale, one of those is likely far better than having no measure at all, and the price is right.

[JediSkipdogg]

Oh, and one area I do have to disagree with Sevens on is SmartReloader. I do avoid all their products EXCEPT their ammo boxes. By far the best and cheapest ammo boxes I have found. I think around $3 each and they are very durable.

Awww Bro, you can't possibly miss my point!
If you buy those boxes, it doesn't matter if the sun shines every day and your car's gas mileage improves. At it's very core, you're supporting the SmartReloader people. And those people are godawful modern pirates. I can hose things off the nethercrevices of my body that deserve far more love & respect than anyone associated with that brand.

So their boxes may work for you, but it was BERRY'S that (in my opinion) perfected the flip-top plastic ammo box, and I've never handled the SmartReloader brand box, but if it's anything like their brass/media separator, I'll bet I know what it's like: it's probably directly STOLEN from Berry's. Berry's-- the fine folks that have supplied me with a great product at a fair price and fantastic service and people I would probably drink beers with if I lived near 'em. Folks that don't deserve to have their ideas blatantly ripped off by a cheap Chinese company.
(this rant works better with some patriotic music playing in the background)

Their boxes are nothing like I've seen on the market for that price. And I have quite a few Berry's boxes for my rifle rounds. Totally different design. I use Berry for rifle and SmartReloader for handgun. I do get what you are saying though.

[Javelin Man]

I am still using my first press, a Pacific reloading press, balance beam scales, etc., all by Pacific. I found things work much better with a Lee autoloading hand primer, then go back to the press.