380 acp crimp

[Dewman]

Having a real issue with crimping.

I have a box of Extreme Plated bullets 100 grain rnfp they measure .355 I have checked a lot of them.

I tried to push on a few and they go in. some of them will just pop right in.
Thought it was the brass so I started using all of one maker and still the same.

I will get a few that pass the push test and then 3-4 that will not.

Took apart the dies and cleaned them. Thought may be the lead that I loaded last would be the problem.

I have different turrets for my 380 and 40 s&w so I just switch them out and have no problem with the 40 s&w .

Am I expecting to much out of that little cartridge by pushing on it to hard .

[mreising]

Have you tried adjusting the die to provide a little more crimp? The plated bullets may be a little loose if you didn't make any adjustments since you loaded other types of bullets. You don't want to crimp it so much that it ends up with a roll crimp biting into the bullet, but you should be able to tighten it some and still have a taper crimp. Anytime you make a change in components you should make sure all adjustments (OAL, crimp, etc.) are checked and changed if needed.

[dl1911]

Personally hate reloading .380. Don't shoot it myself, but amazing what a cute girl can get me to do! Biggest problems I've had are expanding it enough so I can easily seat the bullet (usually been 100gr Berry's RNFB) without so much that the bullet doesn't go beyond the depth I want just by placing it there. Even then I usually end up crushing a few cases with every batch. Sounds like you need just a bit more on the expander.

[evan price]

380 is so short and small that it is finicky to setup.
You need to adjust your flare die to provide just enough flare to sit the bullet on the case and not scrape the side of the bullet. If you've been loading lead you probably have too much flare for plated.
Your crimp should be bullet diameter + brass wall thickness (usually .010") times two (two sides to the case around the bullet). When measured with a mic that will be roughly .355" plus .020" which is .375" plus a thousandth max. If you are crimping more than that you will have setback problems. Brass has springback when sized or crimped. The lead core of the bullet is dead with no springback, the plating is very thin and doesn't spring back either. If you overcrimp the lead stays shrunk down, the brass springs back, and your bullet is loose. It may sound counterintuitive, but more crimp can mean even looser bullets. With FMJ bullets the jacket is thick and springs back even if the core gets squeezed.
Good luck.

[Sevens]

Brass has springback when sized or crimped. The lead core of the bullet is dead with no springback, the plating is very thin and doesn't spring back either. If you overcrimp the lead stays shrunk down, the brass springs back, and your bullet is loose. It may sound counterintuitive, but more crimp can mean even looser bullets. With FMJ bullets the jacket is thick and springs back even if the core gets squeezed.
Good luck.

100% truth.

I've loaded a few thousand .380's, my slug of choice has been the Berry's 100gr Plated Flat-base.

I've got a hunch I know what one of the problems may be that you're facing: check your brass supply for Remington/R-P brass. This brass has thinner walls than most (all?) others on the market. I've only found two solutions to this problem of R-P in .380:
--set the brass aside to load with cast lead slugs that are generally one-thousandth thicker
--set the brass aside as you simply cannot use it

If there is another solution to this problem, I haven't discovered it. -MORE- crimp is absolutely not the answer, it never was.

[mreising]

I stand corrected in my response. I guess I wasn't understanding what was going on. Thanks guys.

[Dewman]

Sevens
I was thinking along the same line as you with the brass but I was thinking different lengths. Since I was working out of a bag of mixed brass . I changed to one that had only Winchester in it and checked the lengths only 1-2 thousands off.
Still did not make a difference in the crimp. I have been all the way from no crimp to crushing the case in turns of 1/8 . I even installed the FCD die from lee set the bullet with one and set crimp with the FCD and that made no difference.
I should say that the dies that I'm using are the lee with the "Modified Taper".

I'm now thinking of getting a die that will do a roll crimp and giving that a try.

evan price Looks like I'm right at .372 to .373

[SAILORMAN]

Dewman,
I feel your pain had a lot of the same issues when I first started reloading 380. You didn't say what dies you were using if they are Lee on a Lee Turret that is what I use with great results. So you understand what little neck tension this round has take a re-sized case but not belled and hand push a bullet into it. Its a lot easier than what you think you could probably reload this round by hand in a pinch LOL. Its really important to not take any of that neck tension away during the reloading process. Put the minimum bell to just sit a bullet on top and not have it peel the plating on seating the bullet. Make sure you have the bullet as straight up and down as possible when seating a little crooked can bulge out one side of the brass. Occasionally you will have one that the bullet just doesn't want to sit on top just hold it between your fingers and guide it up into the seating die. I probably have to do that with 1 out of 10 with the minimal bell I put in mine.

I only crimp this round enough to take the bell out I have found anymore just makes the neck tension worse. So minimal crimp as soon as your bell is gone stop. Plunk test it to make sure it works in your barrel and you are good to go.

Push testing your rounds just doesn't work with these little cartridges it doesn't take much at all to push that bullet into the thin bass. I tend to go by the feel of the bullet seating if i can feel the bullet being pushed in I know I am good. If you have one that just slides in with hardly any resistance I always check it after the crimp to see if I can turn the bullet between my finger and thumb.

I haven't tried the Extreme bullets in 380 I do love their 38SPL ones they are the only plated 38SPL I know that has a Cannelure for crimping. You might try Berrys Bullet 100GR Hollow Base Round Nose it seats deeper in the case but has the same internal volume. I found you can load these to the same COAL and the same charge as a FBRN and can't tell the difference. Because there is more surface area for the case to hold onto it seems to help some with neck tension.

Me and my family have probably shot 3000 of these thru 4 different guns this year without any problems.

Well good luck with your reloading its a fun round to reload and shoot once you get it all sorted out.

[SAILORMAN]

Dewman,

I didn't see your last response before I posted I load mixed head stamp range pickup brass with out any issues.. I went down and checked Berrys they are .355-.356.

I do my crimp with the FCD but as I said just enough to take the bell out no more.

[BobK]

I'm now thinking of getting a die that will do a roll crimp and giving that a try.

You do not want to roll crimp .380 ACP.

[SAILORMAN]

Dewman,

I went and looked at pictures of the Extreme Bullets compared to the Berry Bullets. The bottom edges seem to be a lot more square than Berrys which have a rounder profile which you don't have to bell so much for.
With that square of an edge you are probably having to bell a lot to get it to sit on top that is just a killer with these small cartridges.

With the rounded bottom of the Berrys it doesn't take much bell at all to seat them.

I stopped using Rainer because of that I had to bell the case too far to not get bite into the plating.

[Dewman]

I'm now thinking of getting a die that will do a roll crimp and giving that a try.

You do not want to roll crimp .380 ACP.

You gotta love those one line shots across the bow when you are headed in the wrong direction..

[Sevens]

Roll crimping is a procedure for revolver rounds -- certainly not for semi-auto rounds that headspace on the case mouth.

Crimping is a tool we have at the bench for holding heavy bullet/heavy recoiling rounds in place to fend off crimp-jump and the propensity for HEAVY slugs to lurch FORWARD under recoil. It is also a method to hold a slug in place for a proper burn of a slow burning powder.

Crimping is -NOT- a method for ensuring case mouth tension/bullet pull in semi-auto handgun rounds that headspace on the case mouth. Quite simply, it just isn't.

And taper crimping isn't really even "crimping" in the sense of the word, where we see "hold that bullet in place." It's just... not. Taper crimp gives the loaded cartridge the proper profile.

If you want to hold the bullet in place in a semi-auto pistol round, you need proper case mouth tension. That means you need a sizing die that returns the case to spec. You need compatible, quality (non-RP! ) brass. You need slugs that mate well with your brass, -NOT- always the case, I have absolutely found. (there are other examples of this!)

Lee claims their FCD will address such issues -- most folks believe that willfully distorting the bullet (especially one without a cannelure) is never going to be the right answer.

Here's something we shouldn't have to argue on:
if you don't have proper, solid case mouth tension---
if there's a chance your bullet (in even a -SINGLE- round) can unknowingly allow itself to be pushed in deeper in to the case...
(typically by means of a violent semi-auto operating procedure...)
...you may creating little over-pressure BOMBS.

Ensure that this doesn't happen.

[BobK]

I'm now thinking of getting a die that will do a roll crimp and giving that a try.

You do not want to roll crimp .380 ACP.

You gotta love those one line shots across the bow when you are headed in the wrong direction..

Hard to type a treatise on my phone.

[SAILORMAN]

Sevens,

I agree with you I only use the FCD because I got a good deal on a used 4 pc set. I just found it easier to set up the last step on it to take the bell out of the brass. Actually if I feel a case being resized again in the FCD I am very Leary of that round. It makes me go what happened do I have week brass maybe bulged some during bullet seating so I guess I use it as an indicator that I might have a problem.

And you are right on this round neck tension is everything! Thats why I made this statement earlier.

"Its really important to not take any of that neck tension away during the reloading process"

Would you agree that this is done by belling the brass the least amount to seat the bullet without cutting into the plating. And second using the crimp die to only take the bell out and bring the case back to proper specs. If you try to crimp this round any more than that I think it actually bulges the brass and you lose all most all neck tension. On not so clean brass my crimp die just leaves a mark at the very top of the brass.

And yes certain brass gives me more problems that others I havnt ran into that many of the ones you mentioned but I will now watch for those and see if they fail for me as well.

I think the original poster mentioning a roll crimp got this thread off on a totally different tangent. I think there was enough said about that he understands that is totally the wrong and inappropriate idea.

Just remembering I had problems with this round when I started and trying to get some no so hostile info back to the original poster. He stated he was just starting with this caliber and this caliber can be very un forgiving of mistakes.

I noticed he has not posted since so did we really help him?