.45 Reloading question. Need a problem fixed.

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JustaShooter
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Re: .45 Reloading question. Need a problem fixed

Post by JustaShooter »

BobK wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
BobK wrote:They are too long. seat them to 1.250
Depends on the bullet of course, but SAAMI lists the specs to be between 1.190" - 1.275"
I was looking at the pictures. They are too long. The bullet ogive is smashing into the rifling leade, and that is preventing proper chambering.
Gotcha - I cannot see the pictures as I do not have a login for that site and did not feel compelled to sign up for this particular issue.
BobK wrote:As info, the 1.275 SAAMI figure is the MAXIMUM allowable length, not the recommended length.
Understood - you'll note I quoted the range and said it depends on the bullet.
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Re: .45 Reloading question. Need a problem fixed.

Post by Sevens »

Few things to keep in mind.

I agree with Bobk simply because if he saw the pics (I did not) than I'm pretty sure he's right. It would be my first answer, but I also cannot see the pictures. Every time you use a bullet from a different manufacturer, it may have a slightly different shape. Measuring the COAL of the loaded round is extremely important but when you use different bullets, that number is going to change.

SAAMI sets (and we pay attention to!) minimum COAL because it can be a pressure issue. When you take a high pressure round and you seat a bullet deeper than before, you reduce the internal space for the combustion. Pressures increase as a result. This is merely one obvious reason that we develop loads -- we start lower than our goal and we work toward them incrementally so we don't find ourselves holding some manner of an "over pressure event" in our shooting hands. :wink:

If you can't chamber a round of .45 Auto, it's not likely to be a crimp issue, it's more likely to be a COAL issue, but this assumes that you did not OVER-FLARE your round to begin with. You can check this simply by flaring a piece, then running that piece (with NO powder and NO slug) in to your seat/crimp die. The piece of brass you end up with should fit easily and perfectly in the chamber of your pistol. Should enter freely and drop freely. If it does this, you didn't over-flare.

Of course, you do need enough flare to start the bullet. Less is best, use the LEAST amount of flare that still works.

With regards to COAL and pressures, .45 Auto is a little more tolerant than say... .40 S&W. .40cal runs 35k PSI max and it does so in a -SMALL- case for the job. That means tiny differences in combustion space means BIGGER jumps in pressure. .45 Auto runs far less pressure and gives you a little more margin of safety.

Again, if you aren't starting at -MAX- than you can work toward a goal before you put yourself in the position of doing something dangerous.

If you aren't familiar with terms such as SAAMI, ogive, COAL and others, you need to sit down and read a load manual. If you don't have a load manual, you need to buy one. If none of these suggestions make sense, you might consider the potential dangers of what you are doing and give it the respect it deserves before you continue.
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Re: .45 Reloading question. Need a problem fixed.

Post by BobK »

Sevens wrote:If you can't chamber a round of .45 Auto, ... assumes that you did not OVER-FLARE your round to begin with. You can check this simply by flaring a piece, then running that piece (with NO powder and NO slug) in to your seat/crimp die. The piece of brass you end up with should fit easily and perfectly in the chamber of your pistol.
I agree with you, Sevens. He had pictures of the round chambered in the barrel. It looked like an extreme version of the rightmost picture, below, but it was further out about another 0.02" of an inch. That tells me the round was not flared so much it could not chamber, because about 0.878" of the 0.898" case did in fact chamber in his barrel.

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Re: .45 Reloading question. Need a problem fixed.

Post by bunkeru2k »

Have had that same issue with multiple semi autos. Some bullet profiles are just not forgiving in certain chambers.
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Re: .45 Reloading question. Need a problem fixed.

Post by SMMAssociates »

Sammy's the little dog in my avatar.... SAAMI is a "standard" :D....

Bob's probably right, but there's one other consideration. Some guns (notably Glocks) leave a small bulge in the diameter of the case just in front of the case head. Some guns won't mind, but some will....

My buddy Joe got a real nice Springfield EMP (9mm) that way - the original owner found it hilariously unreliable, and never noticed that his brass had that bulge in it.... Joe bought a "Lee Factory Crimp" die, which seems to fix the case bulge issue. I stuck one in my press (loading .45's) and found it a little helpful, but I was barely having a problem, and it could have been something else. Keeping the OAL well inside the SAAMI spec generally does the job with .45's.

The .45 was originally a black powder round, and usually just needs a hint of newer powders (although I suppose you could find some "bulky" powder types).

I'm not convinced that we need that Lee die, but if you've got a separate crimping position on your press, it might be worth a try. Save a nickel first, though, and mic the case diameter near the head. It should be uniform....

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Re: .45 Reloading question. Need a problem fixed.

Post by mreising »

Stu: I don't think the 45ACP was ever a black powder round. The 45 Colt, on the other hand, began life that way.
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Re: .45 Reloading question. Need a problem fixed.

Post by SMMAssociates »

Mark:

You may be right. It dates from the period when smokeless was gradually eating the market, though, so who knows? I also had an Argentine-made 1911 many years ago with a totally corroded-out barrel. I'm not sure how you could do that with non-corrosive ammunition, although the primers may have been the problem. New barrel, no problems....

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Re: .45 Reloading question. Need a problem fixed.

Post by Sacrificial Lamb »

Try seating your rounds at 1.270 for FMJs. I ran into a similar problem with a friend and his Kimber. He had tried using Hornadys XTPs(Factory Ammo)and had a Failure to Feed problem. After further inspection of rounds and Firearm, Kimbers FeedRamp is slightly closer and wouldn't allow JHPs to feed correctly so we reloaded some seating the 230grain JHPs .007-.008 deeper(1.227-1.228) than Factory Ammo which corrected feeding issues. I've personally reloaded over 6k 45acp FMJs and JHP rounds in the past year with (NO Crimp on Any)and none over 1.270(+or-.001) for FMJs and 1.230(+or-.001)JHPs and can say none have had any issues feeding and all went "Bang" using several different type firearms(other than Kimbers).The only rounds I've ever Crimped were .380s that I reload for my Daughter-N-Law. Which IMHO .380s are truly a Pain and are the Only Caliber that gets a Crimp to prevent round movement when feeding,which is more prevalent in .380s. So I personally don't think Crimping 45s are needed but that's just my opinion. So in short try seating your rounds .005 deeper to correct issues. Oh yea I'm a retired ToolMaker with O.C.D. :D LOL so I measure and fully inspect 100% of my reloads for accuracy, consistency and peace of mind. Hope this Helps and Safe Shooting.
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