Can't chamber cartridges

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glocksmith
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Can't chamber cartridges

Post by glocksmith »

I have to admit I'm stumped and have never seen this problem before :oops: I just got a brand new S&W 500 and loaded up a few test rounds for it using my LEE carbide dies, Winchester brass, and Hornady 350gr XTP's. I got a nasty surprise when I tried to put the cartridges into the cylinder. They would'nt go in at all...not past the case mouth...too big. So I decided to get out the spent test shell casing that comes with the gun...it fits fine. Next I tried some empty cases which I have full length resized BUT not neck expanded...they fit fine as well. It seems the problem is the neck expander. A bigger problem is that if I don't use the neck expander at all, then I cannot get the bullet to sit properly for seating. Does anyone have experience with this, and how do I achieve the delicate balance between expanding just enough to aid the seating process, and expanding too much to fit the loaded cartridge into the chamber.

Been loading big straight walled cartridges a long time and never had this problem before :oops:
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Whirlwind06
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Re: Can't chamber cartridges

Post by Whirlwind06 »

Maybe the crimp needs to be adjusted?
You can back off the seating part of the die and try incrementally adjusting the crimp.
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xracer
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Re: Can't chamber cartridges

Post by xracer »

Whirlwind06 wrote:Maybe the crimp needs to be adjusted?
You can back off the seating part of the die and try incrementally adjusting the crimp.

+1
Doesn't a S&W 500 Mag need a considerable crimp to prevent bullet setback? I had a similar issue with my 9mm and had to come down with the crimp die until the case wall was no longer belled out then adjust the seating part out to get the correct OAL. I believe with the 500 you need more than just a mild taper crimp, you may need a roll crimp.
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Sevens
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Re: Can't chamber cartridges

Post by Sevens »

It is not setback that you are trying to fight with big bore revolver rounds, it's quite the opposite -- crimp jump.

Even so, it sounds like you may be flaring too much.

You have tried sized brass that hasn't been flared and it fits, no sweat. Have you tried chambering your flared brass? With a very light flare, they should seat... maybe with resistance, but they should seat. You definitely don't need much flare, but a little does have to happen. And yeah -- a HEAVY roll crimp is extremely important.

There is a possibility that your inability to seat a loaded round isn't related to flare or crimp, but rather the COAL of the cartridge and the chance that you didn't seat the bullet deep enough. However, if these are "built for .500 Mag" component jacketed bullets, then they have a nice big cannelure and if you are loading to that cannelure, you should have no issues.
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stephen45-70
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Re: Can't chamber cartridges

Post by stephen45-70 »

A commen mistake with big bore revolver cartridges is to over crimp .
When you over crimp it bulges the case right behind the crimp and then wont chamber just the same as if you had flared the case. And not removed the flair.

To keep bullets in place with big bores you need to rely on 2 things crimp and neck tension.
And most find it hard to believe but neck tension does way more to keep things in place then the crimp.
But you do need a good solid crimp as well .. just do not over do things .. the case mouth should just be rolled into the cannalure ... no more .... seating and crimping in two differant steps makes things a lot easier .

I suspect you mivht be a bit of a novice reloader as you didnt check to be sure the cartridges would chamber as you was going along .. so if you need help on bow to get proper neck tension please

Oh and i do hope you was sure to trim cases to tje same le ght to assure a even crimp on
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stephen45-70
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Re: Can't chamber cartridges

Post by stephen45-70 »

... just to correct something i said above ....

I didnt mean. A novice as to reloading just to big bore revolvers in general .

The big guys need a bit of extra care when it comes to proper feeding .

And i do doubt that any 350 grain bullet can be to long to chamber .. as my s-w
Will swallow anything with a wide flat nose up to about 600 grains
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Re: Can't chamber cartridges

Post by JustaShooter »

I agree with the posts above, it is most likely insufficient crimp that doesn't completely remove the flare, or too much crimp that is slightly bulging the case just behind the mouth.
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glocksmith
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Re: Can't chamber cartridges

Post by glocksmith »

Sevens wrote:if these are "built for .500 Mag" component jacketed bullets, then they have a nice big cannelure and if you are loading to that cannelure, you should have no issues.
Thanks everyone for all the information. Yes, I seated bullets just to the point where the cannelure meets the case mouth - OAL is exactly 2.00. My Dad suggested that I back the seating die waaayyy out and push the ill-fitting cartridges further into the die this time - and I think that's the same basic idea you guys are speaking of in your replies. Crimping has never really been an issue I've had to contend with before. I also load .45-70s for a revolver and have had no problems whatsoever. The LEE die for the 500 is carbide, and I'm not sure if I like it :?
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dl1911
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Re: Can't chamber cartridges

Post by dl1911 »

I tend to be lazy about adjust the crimp die. I use Dillon's die sets with a RCBS or Redding expander die since I have a Hornady progressive press and haven't invested in an expander for the powder feed. I usually get a case check gauge along with the dies although you can use your revolver or barrel from a pistol as well. After getting everything else set, I slowly move the crimp die down until it will now pass the case gauge. At that point I turn it 1/4-1/2 turn more and lock it down. I have used the more common 3 die sets with the die that seats and crimps at the same time and find this much easier.
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Sevens
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Re: Can't chamber cartridges

Post by Sevens »

With a Lee die set for .500 Mag, you can seat and crimp in two different steps, you merely have to ADJUST the die to do this.

With a charged and mouth-flared case ready, take the seat/crimp die and have the DIE BODY screwed well out so that the shell holder will not make contact with the bottom of the die. This ensures NO crimp will be applied. At this point, screwing down the bullet seater plug will give you the seating depth/COAL you are aiming for. And as you are -NOT- crimping (yet), you can adjust this bit by bit, screwing down, giving it a look, screwing down some more until you have found the exact seating depth you are looking for.

Now, screw the seater plug out a number of turns... and screw the entire die DOWN until it touches the shell holder. Now your die is set to -NOT- seat the bullet whatsoever, but to apply the roll crimp.

What I just wrote is a simplified and not at all EXACT outline of how I do it. I am much more precise and fastidious in my methods, doing a lot of small adjusting, marking, and checking. Repeatability and consistency is my goal.

When you have successfully built rounds that chamber, you are not yet done. When working with GONZO size magnum revolver rounds, you need to really test that crimp to avoid crimp-jump which could tie up a revolver. In a dangerous game hunt, that could get you very killed.

The test is easy. Show up at the range with 9 loaded rounds, all built EXACTLY the same. Same charge, same bullet, SAME crimp.

Take one round and clearly mark the case head with a sharpie. Draw anything on there to easily identify that ONE round.

Now load all five chambers.

Fire four of the rounds, leaving your marked round UNFIRED.

Eject the four spent brass and your one unfired round.

EXAMINE the bullet, it should be EXACTLY where you loaded it and a visible cannelure makes this an easy check.
The make a more precise check, bring your dial/digital caliper to the range session.

That bullet should not have moved even a wee little smidge.

If it did move, you do not have enough crimp and that is a problem.

Test isn't over: if the bullet didn't move, load the revolver up again with that marked round and four more new ones.

Discharge the four new ones and eject all, examine your marked round again. Obviously, it should *NOT* have moved even a bit.

If it didn't move, your testing of the crimp has ended successfully.
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
glocksmith
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Re: Can't chamber cartridges

Post by glocksmith »

Thank you very much Sevens for the time and effort to type all of that out. Good information...and I'm going to copy and save it. I'm pretty sure now that I didn't adjust my seating die properly - seems I was in a hurry to get a few loaded before I went out of town. I haven't ever had any bullets pull crimp during recoil (yet) but only have experience with my BFR which has a 3" long cylinder. For the 500, I plan on keeping loads down to a manageable level - 350gr operating in the low 40's Kpsi. Good idea on the marking pen test, and I'm definitely going to give it a try.
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