10mm

To learn and introduce new loaders. Tips and tricks from old timers.

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Sevens
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Re: 10mm

Post by Sevens »

I got: I was interested in the round when I found that I could not find a barrel (oddball!) for a gun that I owned and loved that was broken, and the only barrel I could find was chambered in .400 Cor-Bon. So I thought about it and decided that I'm getting really sick & tired of chasing brass, and I don't enjoy chasing brass like I did years back, so I skipped it.

That's as close as I came to investigating the round.

Bottle-neck pistol rounds are neat, and the .357 Sig is a good example. (NO -- it's not a .357 Mag, it could never be a .357 Mag and it doesn't need to be a .357 Mag) but it's a nasty little round and awfully good at what it is designed to do. But bottle neck pistol rounds are never a friendly bunch at the load bench... which is also a character trait that keeps my interest.

If you want to play around with crazy chamberings that are way off the mainstream, I recommend .460 Rowland! :twisted:
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
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Re: 10mm

Post by Brian D. »

Sevens wrote:
If you want to play around with crazy chamberings that are way off the mainstream, I recommend .460 Rowland! :twisted:
I would have just the gun for that one, a Norinco 1911. Rowland used to specifically mention that brand as being stout enough for their .460.

Later on I think they recommended the Glock large frame (Model 20 or 21) as being tough enough, too.

Anyhooo, we digress. Sorry about that.
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Re: 10mm

Post by glocksmith »

There used to be an infomercial for the .460 Rowland where the guy was blowing up water jugs and melons. He was trying to illustrate the difference between standard .45acp and the .460 Rowland. Well...the .460 pulverized them and the .45acp was unimpressive. I paid close attention and discovered that his .45acp rounds were FMJ's and the .460's were JHP's :? I pretty much called Bravo Sierra on that one. If I want power out of an autopistol, I'll buy a Coonan instead of Rowlands drop-in kit.
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OhioPaints
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Re: 10mm

Post by OhioPaints »

Sevens wrote:
OhioPaints wrote:No, there are other BIG differences: 10mm has a higher pressure rating (37,500 vs 35,000) and a stronger case design than the 40SW.
Sadly the part colored in red is simply not true.

The use of a large pistol primer in the 10mm (when a small pistol primer would do just fine) results in a slightly weaker case design. To wit, you can actually run .40 S&W harder when loading externally similar rounds, by loading the bullet long in the case and using the extra capacity created by same. It's not at all the proper way to build a round, and it's certainly not in spec, but the large primer design of the 10mm brass is the limiting factor and the .40 S&W case beats it in that regard.

If someone (Starline, for example, who will make anything you ask upon request*) wanted to make the meanest, strongest 10mm brass ever -- they'd make it with a small pistol primer and it would simply be longer .40 S&W brass. (*please note that 'upon request' also includes tens of thousands of pieces in the order and more money than you'd believe...)
So you are saying that the larger primer weakens the case despite a thicker web design on the 10mm? If that is true, then why is the 10mm SWAAMI spec 2,500 PSI higher than the 40sw?
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Re: 10mm

Post by suedenflames68 »

OhioPaints wrote:
Sevens wrote:
OhioPaints wrote:No, there are other BIG differences: 10mm has a higher pressure rating (37,500 vs 35,000) and a stronger case design than the 40SW.
Sadly the part colored in red is simply not true.

The use of a large pistol primer in the 10mm (when a small pistol primer would do just fine) results in a slightly weaker case design. To wit, you can actually run .40 S&W harder when loading externally similar rounds, by loading the bullet long in the case and using the extra capacity created by same. It's not at all the proper way to build a round, and it's certainly not in spec, but the large primer design of the 10mm brass is the limiting factor and the .40 S&W case beats it in that regard.

If someone (Starline, for example, who will make anything you ask upon request*) wanted to make the meanest, strongest 10mm brass ever -- they'd make it with a small pistol primer and it would simply be longer .40 S&W brass. (*please note that 'upon request' also includes tens of thousands of pieces in the order and more money than you'd believe...)
So you are saying that the larger primer weakens the case despite a thicker web design on the 10mm? If that is true, then why is the 10mm SWAAMI spec 2,500 PSI higher than the 40sw?
While I haven't pushed the limits of either cartrige to failure, nor done extensive tests such as cross sectioning the brass or volume test , or weight or similar, my research has led me to believe the same about 40 being stronger due to the small primer.
Specs could be lower due to many pistols being chambered in 40 being not as high quality (strong) as most 10mm or due to chamber support issues being regularly disscused with 40s and toned down for this reason.
I read that 380s have been backed off a lot in books due to all the weaker plastic guns being made in recent years.
In any event, I have 10mm and 40cal glocks and prefer the 10mm. I really want to like 40 because I've seen several fun looking loads to make for it but I'm having trouble convincing myself.
10mm is basically .40 cal magnum

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Klingon00
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Re: 10mm

Post by Klingon00 »

I don't have any experience with .400 Corbon, but looking at it on paper, I don't see that it has much of an advantage over extremely light weight (For caliber) .45ACP +P loadings.

185grain 45acp +P appears to have about the same muzzle energy and velocity as the 165 grain .400 Corbon.
1,225 ft/s (373 m/s) 616 ft·lbf (835 J) vs. 1,250 ft/s (380 m/s) 573 ft·lbf (777 J)
For even lighter weights, it doesn't appear to do much that a .357sig can't do better.

It's a neat idea, but it seems that there are more cost effective and simpler ways to get there.
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OhioPaints
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Re: 10mm

Post by OhioPaints »

Klingon00 wrote:I don't have any experience with .400 Corbon, but looking at it on paper, I don't see that it has much of an advantage over extremely light weight (For caliber) .45ACP +P loadings.
Do you want to start an argument over 230gr vs. lightweight .45 loadings? <g,d&r> JMB designed the 1911 for 230 gr bullets, anything else is heresy and wrong, LOL.

Actually, if you want to go the modified .45 route, I think .45 Super is perhaps the better way to go. In a full size .45, all it needs is a recoil spring change and .45 super brass. .45 Super with a 185 grain load is supposed to provide 1387 fps. With a 200 gr XTP it is supposed to provide 1295 fps, 744 ft-#.
http://www.realguns.com/loads/45Super.htm
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Sevens
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Re: 10mm

Post by Sevens »

OhioPaints wrote:So you are saying that the larger primer weakens the case despite a thicker web design on the 10mm? If that is true, then why is the 10mm SWAAMI spec 2,500 PSI higher than the 40sw?
Haha, "Swaami", I like that! Truly, a higher power! :lol:

The 10mm is rated higher... because it is rated higher. Why is .327 Federal rated at 45,000 PSI Is it because the brass is more sturdy, durable and resistant to failure? Well... no. Not at all, not even close. :oops: It's rated at 45,000 PSI because that is what they wished to accomplish when they designed it, so that is what they did.

Fact is, 40 S&W, running 35,000 PSI is not prone to failure. And 10mm running 37,500 PSI is also not prone to failure.

If you took each and began to push them well past SAAMI spec in a test platform where the gun itself had no say in the success or failure of the brass, you'd find in short order that the far smaller web of the 10mm case is prone to failure first. In fact, there's a gentleman on another forum who does precisely such testing. He buys guns specifically to destroy and he handloads all of them to absolute failure. He also then welds up different parts of the SAME guns and goes back at it, and chrono's all his efforts. His escapades are enjoyable to read, though I'm not sure what the practical purpose might be. He has come to exactly those conclusions in comparing .40 S&W and 10mm brass.

Bottom line is that 10mm would be better off with a small pistol primer.
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
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Sevens
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Re: 10mm

Post by Sevens »

suedenflames68 wrote:10mm is basically .40 cal magnum
Well, when you compare most (all?) previous use of the term "magnum" in handgun cartridges... not really. The established "Magnum" rounds would typically have a radical increase in pressure over the parent round, and then the brass would be lengthened simply to keep the new round from chambering in the older guns designed for the parent round. For my argument, we have to make an obvious exception to the .41 Magnum, that had no parent round. :P

But being that the 10mm and .40 S&W run similar pressure...
And also that the 10mm round -is- the parent to the smaller, shorter .40 S&W round, it's a tough argument to call the 10mm a ".40 S&W Magnum"

For further fun discussion... there is the rare existence of the 10mm Magnum round! :twisted:
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
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Re: 10mm

Post by shortland »

ok welli think im gonna buy a glock in 10 mm.just to have one and maybe to ccw with,im carrying a g21 now and like it.
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Re: 10mm

Post by pirateguy191 »

^^^ Buy a Glock 29. It's like a gun that shoots a 40 S&W Magnum but in a G21 frame that was shrunk down to a short fat compact. But not really. :? :lol: :wink:
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Re: 10mm

Post by Double3 »

shortland wrote:ok welli think im gonna buy a glock in 10 mm.just to have one and maybe to ccw with,im carrying a g21 now and like it.
They are exactly the same size.

I plan on carrying my 20sf at times.
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Re: 10mm

Post by CMcLeish »

I loved my Glock 20 and the 10mm round in general. It hits with authority and I liked it better than 45 acp. I found factory ammo readily available and cheap. Reloading components and dies are as readily available as anything else. Georgia Arms sells plinking ammo FMJ (when they sell ammo!). Its all a matter of taste. Most people go with 40 or 45 due to popularity and that is fine. What matters most is that we shoot our guns. :)
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dl1911
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Re: 10mm

Post by dl1911 »

CMcLeish wrote:I found factory ammo readily available and cheap. Reloading components and dies are as readily available as anything else.
Having just replaced the 10mm Eclipse I had to sell, I've started reloading 10mm again. Brass can be hard to find. Thankfully I saved all that I had and also was surprised the The Brass Exchange had it (http://www.thebrassexchange.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) in stock so ordered some more. A few places have 40/10 bullets in stock but haven't seen any of the 200gr. May try out some 180gr cast lead in it. Started looking for Winchester Silvertips for SD but haven't found any yet. Using Hornady 180gr XTPs for now. Have had good luck with TiteGroup for 10mm Lite/FBI loads, have a few pounds of Blue Dot for full power loads, and of course Power Pistol to help announce my presence!
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CMcLeish
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Re: 10mm

Post by CMcLeish »

dl1911 wrote:
CMcLeish wrote:I found factory ammo readily available and cheap. Reloading components and dies are as readily available as anything else.
Having just replaced the 10mm Eclipse I had to sell, I've started reloading 10mm again. Brass can be hard to find. Thankfully I saved all that I had and also was surprised the The Brass Exchange had it (http://www.thebrassexchange.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) in stock so ordered some more. A few places have 40/10 bullets in stock but haven't seen any of the 200gr. May try out some 180gr cast lead in it. Started looking for Winchester Silvertips for SD but haven't found any yet. Using Hornady 180gr XTPs for now. Have had good luck with TiteGroup for 10mm Lite/FBI loads, have a few pounds of Blue Dot for full power loads, and of course Power Pistol to help announce my presence!
Good info! I'm trying to talk myself out of getting back into the 10mm game because I purposely thinned the herd a couple years ago to all 9mm and 45 long colt. I love 10mm so it will probably win out :D
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