.380 load issues

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97ZJwheeler
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.380 load issues

Post by 97ZJwheeler »

To all you much more experienced loaders... I'm having an issue with my .380 loads. Shooting them out of a Walther PK380. I get a lot of unburned powder on my arms, and unreliable cycling of the firearm. I will have 2 or 3 mags that cycle fine, and then the next one I have to manually cycle the slide on every round.

I'm using a Lee Classic Turret press with the auto-disk powder measure. Powder was measured on every round for a while to verify, then spot checked after it was confirmed to be consistent.

Load data:
Mixed brass
Berry's 100gr. plated round nose bullets
IMR PB powder, 2.5gr (load data from the Lee manual has a range of 2.5-2.8gr)

I guess my concern is this: If I'm getting unreliable cycling of the firearm, the logical thinker in me says I need more powder. But, if I'm already getting unburned powder flakes all over my arms, will the additional powder burn at all or just increase what gets stuck in my arm hair? Or do I have something else not set up correctly?

I don't personally know anyone who reloads, so all of this is new to me. Any help or advice you could provide me would be much appreciated!
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JustaShooter
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by JustaShooter »

I don't load for .380 ACP, nor do I use IMR PB for any of the cartridges I do load for so I have no direct experience. However, I can offer a couple of general suggestions that might help.

Fixing the unburnt powder could very well fix the action cycling, so I'd start there. Now, you'll almost always have some unburnt powder but it does seem like you have more than what is normal.

Check to make sure your COL/OAL is where it should be. For a 100gr round nose bullet in a.380 ACP I'd expect it to be around .980, maybe a bit shorter. Longer means lower pressure, which could be a part of the problem with powder ignition (some powders like more pressure to ignite properly). If you are loading longer than .980 I'd shorten it up. If you are already at or shorter than .980 I'd leave it alone.

Unburned powder can mean you are not crimping the case enough so pressure isn't building and facilitating powder ignition. Try a bit more crimp - load up a few with an additional say, 1/8 - 1/4 turn and see if that helps (if you crimp and seat in the same operation, be sure to back out your seating plug to compensate for the change in OAL.) Don't overdo it and start crushing the bullet though...

It could be that you need a bit hotter primer. If you have another brand of primer to try, I'd load up a few and see if that helps. I've heard that Winchester primers are generally the "hottest," Federal and CCI are middle of the road, and Remington primers are the mildest.

I have also seen where more powder does make for better ignition so if the above doesn't help then I'd try a few with a heavier load.

Hope this helps. If not, maybe someone with more experience with PB or the .380 can chime in.
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97ZJwheeler
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by 97ZJwheeler »

Thank you for the info!

Guess I did forget to mention, I'm using CCI 500 small pistol primers.

I will see if I can pull the press out over the weekend and load up a few more rounds to test with. Might even be able to get to the range to test them this weekend. I love holidays :)
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BobK
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by BobK »

Excessive unburnt powder usually means the pressure is too low to have full ignition. Up the charge.

What COL?
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JustaShooter
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by JustaShooter »

BobK wrote:Excessive unburnt powder usually means the pressure is too low to have full ignition. Up the charge.

What COL?
Is there an echo in here? lol :wink:
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YoteHuntr
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by YoteHuntr »

Just a perhaps silly question but, you are using original .380 brass, right? Not some cut down .223 brass or some other abomination like that? While it is possible with a lot of attention to detail, that can present a whole lot of problems.
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dl1911
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by dl1911 »

I've made up some .380s for friends to use when I'm with them. Don't shoot it myself but they liked how they shot out of a Ruger LCP. It was Berry's 100gr RNFB (Round Nose Flat Base), 3.2gr Universal, 0.980 COAL. Lighter feeling than the factory loads they had used. Seemed pretty clean. Hate loading .380 though so try to avoid it. Brass it too short and weak walls as well. Couldn't expand much after sizing and had trouble with cases crushing when seating a bullet if not set nearly perfectly. Averaged one out of 15-20 ruined. Did everything on a Hornady Progressive LnL with Dillon dies and a RCBS expander.
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Sevens
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by Sevens »

Another vote for upping the charge.
Also, a new vote for trying different powders. I've used a lot of Power Pistol and Bullseye to load pretty good .380 handloads using the 100gr Berry's plated bullet.

I spend a lot of time in handloading forums, reading what other folks are playing with. While I occasionally see someone playing around with...say... Herco, this may be the first time I've seen anyone working with PB. :lol: Not what I'd call popular. (not that it makes it a bad choice, just that it's much tougher to find a lot of folks who have direct experience in using it to share with you)
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
97ZJwheeler
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by 97ZJwheeler »

Thanks again for the info and suggestions.

Unfortunately I wasn't able to load up anything over the weekend. Family picnics and wedding preparations won out. I plan on making some time tonight to load up a few test rounds.

To answer a couple of the questions:
YoteHuntr wrote:Just a perhaps silly question but, you are using original .380 brass, right? Not some cut down .223 brass or some other abomination like that? While it is possible with a lot of attention to detail, that can present a whole lot of problems.
Yes, I'm using original .380 brass. Most is brass that either myself or a couple of shooting buddies have fired.
Sevens wrote:Another vote for upping the charge.
Also, a new vote for trying different powders. I've used a lot of Power Pistol and Bullseye to load pretty good .380 handloads using the 100gr Berry's plated bullet.

I spend a lot of time in handloading forums, reading what other folks are playing with. While I occasionally see someone playing around with...say... Herco, this may be the first time I've seen anyone working with PB. :lol: Not what I'd call popular. (not that it makes it a bad choice, just that it's much tougher to find a lot of folks who have direct experience in using it to share with you)
I definitely am not attached to PB, it just happened to be what was in stock when I took my list of powders I had data for to the LGS to buy components. Since then I've acquired a pound of Power Pistol as well, but can't find any consistent load data for it. And I'm kind of a tightwad and want to use the powder I've paid for :lol:

I also have some Red Dot which I've seen in a few of the reloading manuals, but I'm trying to save that for the 12ga. I tend to shoot a lot of clays in the summer...
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by Sevens »

Be careful when using a large(ish) flake powder like Red Dot in a very small case like the .380. If you have any trouble metering the powder and getting a consistent powder drop, you can really run in to problems in a small case because small differences from a poor metering powder can make wild differences in the load. I'd be most concerned about an under charge and a stuck bullet.

The .380 load I've used quite a bit has been 4.4gr Power Pistol under a 100gr Berry's Plate RN FB, loaded to a 0.975" COAL.
I based my data off an older pre-ATK printed Alliant guide that published a 4.6gr MAX load with a 100gr Winchester FMJ slug at 0.975" COAL, producing 1,035 FPS for Alliant in their 3.7" test barrel.
And I'm kind of a tightwad and want to use the powder I've paid for :lol:
Well, then you'll like this, Mr. Titewad: Quit buying Red Dot and replace it instead with Alliant Promo. Promo is a "bulk" equivalent of Red Dot by weight. (not volume!) If you have published data for Red Dot, you can use the same charge weight in Promo for the task. This comes from the techs at Alliant, but I'd suggest you ask them first before taking my word for it.

Alliant Promo may be -the- lowest retail priced canister powder on the market. Only comes in 8 lb'ers, I think.

As for getting your money's worth from a powder you bought -- I understand, and I do the same thing. Just keep in mind that you can absolutely defer that to much, much later. The powder, if kept dry, will last for decades. I'd simply put it away and make it a plan to get your money out of it sometime down the road if you can't confidently find published data or advice for using it.
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
97ZJwheeler
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by 97ZJwheeler »

I finally got the chance to load, and shoot some test loads. Settled on 2.8gr of PB (published max load). This seemed to cycle the action the best, and definitely proved to be the most accurate. Grouping was less than half the overall size of the initial 2.5gr load.

Next challenge, getting the time to load a few hundred of these...

Thank you everyone for the suggestions!
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by techmike »

I load .380, and use Berry's plated. I stick to Win 231, 3.2 gr for the 100 gr bullet. They cycle flawlessly in my PK380 and P-238. I run a COL of .960" for this load.
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by evan price »

Sevens wrote:Well, then you'll like this, Mr. Titewad: Quit buying Red Dot and replace it instead with Alliant Promo. Promo is a "bulk" equivalent of Red Dot by weight. (not volume!) If you have published data for Red Dot, you can use the same charge weight in Promo for the task. This comes from the techs at Alliant, but I'd suggest you ask them first before taking my word for it.

Alliant Promo may be -the- lowest retail priced canister powder on the market. Only comes in 8 lb'ers, I think.

Dad Gum it, Sevens, you're giving away information that will make people WANT to buy Promo, and they'll raise the price! At ten bucks a pound it's the best secret for low cost reloading while not using surplus or pulldown! :mrgreen:
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Sevens
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by Sevens »

:lol: Ya just don't get too much "dad gum it" these days... :P
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
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Re: .380 load issues

Post by BobK »

Sevens wrote::lol: Ya just don't get too much "dad gum it" these days... :P
Yeah, I tend more towards "dag nabbit" myself . . . :lol:
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