What's the difference??

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TJW815
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What's the difference??

Post by TJW815 »

So I managed to pick up some Federal 45's today at Walmart. I always use these for my plinking rounds, always had great luck with them. Something is different about these 3 new boxes. Besides the box being larger it has some new advisements placed on it.

First it actually states "not for ported barrels," wasn't on the old boxes. (I have a "few" more boxes)
Second it also states, "not for law enforcement use," again I also checked the old boxes, nothing.

So can anybody shed some light on this??? :?:
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Werz
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by Werz »

FOR DISPLAY ONLY
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Vex
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by Vex »

Does the part number begin with X?
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by xenos »

Found this on the webs.
A while back there was a surge of Speer Gold Dot .40 ammunition that was being sold in bulk for near the price of FMJ ammo. It was specified for non-LE (actually, target) use, as is your Federal ammo. In Speer's case, this was because, as the last poster speculated,

Quote:
It failed QC some way--maybe or maybe not serious. You'd best consider it plinking fodder.
The Gold Dots had a 1 in 10,000 chance of misfire--no where near acceptable for carry ammo, so Speer had to bite its lip and just about give it away.

I'll bet that if you called Federal and gave them the lot number off one of the boxes, they would tell you something very similar.

But, actually, it is strange that Federal merely said no Law Enforcement use, not "Don't anyone , civilian or LE, depend on this ammunition for carry". If there were a critical reliability problem, I have to imagine they wouldn't want a citizen carrier to suffer for it either, so maybe I'm off base here and something else is going on.
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by Brian D. »

As to the proscription against using in ported barrels, a guess here: The powder used in this ammo is not as "low flash" as other batches of the same stuff?
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TJW815
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by TJW815 »

Vex wrote:Does the part number begin with X?
No, part number: WM5233.

Lot number: u20j527

The only differences I see in the round itself is as follows. My older federal 45acp FMJ has a small brass colored primer where as the new rounds have a larger silver colored primer. Also, the stamping, while it says the same thing, it does not look the same. (Different font and deeper pressed and the older federal has a dot before and after "federal").

@brian, perhaps your are right in regards to the flash capacity of the powder.



eta: I emailed Federal and asked the same questions I will let you know what they say.
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

While waiting on a reply, do you know anybody with a ported barrel? :mrgreen:
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TJW815
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by TJW815 »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:While waiting on a reply, do you know anybody with a ported barrel? :mrgreen:
Lol. Not local
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by TJW815 »

Did a little research. It appears that they are putting the "American eagle" line in the red/black box we see so typically at Wally World.

New question. Which is better? The American Eagle or the red/black box line?


Still waiting for a reply from Federal.....
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by Sevens »

TJW815 wrote:No, part number: WM5233.
Side note discussion: There's lots of different ATK products sold at Wal-Mart that have a unique part number preceded by the ubiquitous "WM."

Obviously, the packaging for any such product is directly for Wal-Mart.

This makes for fun lookin' around when you see wildly inflated ammo at a gun show. $60 bulk packs of Federal Champion rimfire? Check the part number.
This is some trace evidence for all theories about what is happening to the ammo we used to see at Wal-Mart that it seems nobody can get anymore.
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TJW815
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by TJW815 »

Reply from Federal:

TJW815,

The round has a plated copper projectile and the copper can strip away in ported/compensated barrels. The label "not for law enforcement use" has to do with it being a target shooting type load and certain law enforcement training excercises are not recommended with this load. The small primer has to do with cost savings in our promotional type loads.

American Eagle, Federal Range and Target and Speer Lawman .45 ACP use large primers and Independence, Champion, Blazer, and Estate handgun .45 ACP use the small primer. There is no safety hazard in reloading these cases with standard primers but the loads were developed with standard large pistol primers. A small primer should have no trouble igniting a 45 Auto charge but may produce slightly less pressure, something to keep in mind when loading target loads. Avoid mixing small and large pocket cases when loading for accuracy.

We have continued to use the small primer in some of our promotional type loads to help keep costs down for the consumer.

Thanks

Federal Premium
Interesting....
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by Werz »

TJW815 wrote:Reply from Federal:
TJW815,

The round has a plated copper projectile and the copper can strip away in ported/compensated barrels. The label "not for law enforcement use" has to do with it being a target shooting type load and certain law enforcement training excercises are not recommended with this load. The small primer has to do with cost savings in our promotional type loads.

American Eagle, Federal Range and Target and Speer Lawman .45 ACP use large primers and Independence, Champion, Blazer, and Estate handgun .45 ACP use the small primer.
Interesting....
More than just interesting. That reply from Federal just caused me a small pain in the butt, but saved me an even bigger one. First, I was aware that some .45 ACP ammunition was fitted with small primers, but I had no idea that cases with a "Federal" headstamp could be either one. If you aren't "eyeballing" the difference in the size of the primer pocket, the difference in the headstamp is very subtle:
Image
Now I need to re-sort my brass.

Second, that message is not totally accurate. They mention "Blazer" as a small-primer case. Maybe they just mean the original Blazer with the aluminum cases. In looking through the cases I sorted earlier, all some of my "Blazer Brass" cases uses large primers.

Edit: See above. Some Blazer Brass cases are large primer cases, but some are small primer cases. And there is no special marking on the headstamp. You can generally tell by looking closely and comparing them, but just to be sure, I try to stick a large primer rod into the primer pocket of each one to see it it fits.

In any event, thanks for saving me a major headache.
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-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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TJW815
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by TJW815 »

Glad it saved you some headache werz.

Still my question remains, why the back and forth between rounds under the same model number? I'm sure that most people wouldn't notice at all. But we are far from most people I believe. The active forum members (most of them) as I have seen are very much attentive to detail. If they would package them under different numbers the there would be a chance that our good friend WERZ would not have to resort his brass!

Is it maybe just whatever they have available that fits a certain criteria? Or do they just not care because its Walmart ammo? :roll:
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by BobK »

Werz wrote:If you aren't "eyeballing" the difference in the size of the primer pocket, the difference in the headstamp is very subtle:
Yeah, I've been rigorously sorting .45 ACP for primer size for a couple years now. I'd say range brass lately runs about 20% small primer.

After sorting more than a few thousand, they start to get easier to spot. But I still do a double sort, since trying to crush a large primer into a small pocket doesn't fare so well.
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Re: What's the difference??

Post by Werz »

BobK wrote:
Werz wrote:If you aren't "eyeballing" the difference in the size of the primer pocket, the difference in the headstamp is very subtle:
Yeah, I've been rigorously sorting .45 ACP for primer size for a couple years now. I'd say range brass lately runs about 20% small primer.

After sorting more than a few thousand, they start to get easier to spot. But I still do a double sort, since trying to crush a large primer into a small pocket doesn't fare so well.
After the re-sort, I lost 115 to small primer pockets. So what do I use with those? Small pistol or small magnum pistol? And how does that affect my powder charge?
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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