Reloads

To learn and introduce new loaders. Tips and tricks from old timers.

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Werz
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Re: Reloads

Post by Werz »

SMMAssociates wrote:
Werz wrote:Can I craft handgun ammunition with reasonable care and quality components which will be as reliable and effective as premium factory-made self-defense ammunition?
Werz:

Just IMHO, but I would think that most handloaders who are willing to do their part (and use quality components) can....

Just IMHO, though, doing so still puts you at the mercy of a Prosecutor (probably unlikely if the shoot is any good), and Civil lawyers out to make a lottery win out of the situation. Being able to point to a manufacturer's box may be useful.
As to the first, that's what I plan to find out.

As to the second, experience dictates that is not an issue.
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-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
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Werz
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Re: Reloads

Post by Werz »

Werz wrote:
Sevens wrote:...and you may find that the best SD loads don't necessarily give the best results all of the time. And what may induce a bit of insanity is trying to figure out WHAT part of the equation is promoting the low SD's and controlling it. It's been my experience that the ONE big thing so many folks think is the biggest variable simply isn't. (the powder charge) I have a hunch that it's much, much more about uniform bullet pull, and the construction and consistency of the bullet itself.

Enjoy your new chrono, and some of the "fun" questions it seems to generate when you may have instead been hoping for answers. :wink:
Oh, I don't mind exploring confounding factors. In fact, to bring things full circle, I'm only looking to answer the original question in this thread:

Can I craft handgun ammunition with reasonable care and quality components which will be as reliable and effective as premium factory-made self-defense ammunition?
Follow-up: The answer to my question is, "Not yet."

Across three guns, the extreme spread was a high of 884 fps through the old Argentine warhorse to a low of 724 fps through the Brazilian pistola de plástico, with the Kimber solidly in the middle. None of them gave me a standard deviation better than 17 fps.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
jmr600
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Re: Reloads

Post by jmr600 »

There are a lot of variables that work together to achieve a low SD,you need to pay attention to the case. They must be very uniform. They may need to be annealed for a more uniform bullet release. Just changing primers can help, might try a mag. primer. I will note that I have never annealed pistol brass, I do rifle with good results.
If your getting a SD of 17 I'd say your doing pretty good. Have you checked any factory ammo?
For me with my 308 the brass helped the most, getting the SD in the single digets. At 400yds it is very accurate on golf balls. Jim
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Re: Reloads

Post by jmr600 »

With further thought on achieving a low SD with a handgun I wonder if it is possible, being the way they operate (blow back design) or with the revolver with the gas leakage between the cylinder and barrel. With the bolt action or single shot it is achievable. Jim
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AzRanger
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Re: Reloads

Post by AzRanger »

JediSkipdogg wrote:
AzRanger wrote:I also reload but a policeman buddy of mine said always use FACTORY ammo in a self defense situation. The lawyers in court will tear you up on the witness stand accusing you of reloading special killer bullets ( I know it sounds ridiculous) but he's been in court many times and has heard this. I have nothing but factory ammo in all my home defense guns and my carry piece.

AzRanger 8)
I'd be interested in where he works that he's been in court many times on homicides. Unless he just enjoys going to the courthouse and sitting in those courtrooms while he waits on his case to be heard in the courtroom next door. :lol:

He works in forensics!!
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jmr600
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Re: Reloads

Post by jmr600 »

If so many case's were brought to the courts, why is it when you do a search for it nothing comes up? There is no such thing as special killer bullets that can be only hand loaded. Just read the description of some of the defence ammo available. Jim
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AzRanger
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Re: Reloads

Post by AzRanger »

jmr600 wrote:If so many case's were brought to the courts, why is it when you do a search for it nothing comes up? There is no such thing as special killer bullets that can be only hand loaded. Just read the description of some of the defence ammo available. Jim

You're missing the point entirely! We all know that are no such thing as "special killer bullets". My friend was simply trying to show how ignorant the lawyers are and how they try and sway the ignorant jury. It doesn't happen all the time but he was just advising me to take caution and use factory ammo. No need to get smart butt about it!

AzRanger :x
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jmr600
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Re: Reloads

Post by jmr600 »

wasn't it your post that stated that this was brought up so many times in the courts? I was just looking for a little something to back that up. Jim
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techmike
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Re: Reloads

Post by techmike »

Interesting topic. I use my hand loads as carry ammunition. I am not trying to say my loads are better than or more consistent than factory or self defense ammunition, but I sure am more used to it. I can afford to practice a lot with the exact same ammunition that I carry, and (for me) that removes several variables from the equation. On a personal note, not really concerned about possible litigation if I ever have to use it in a self defense mode. If that was a concern, then wouldn't any firearm modification(s) also be liable to legal scrutiny? Grips, barrel, sights - in other words if you insist on stock ammunition, you should only carry a stock firearm. Yes? No?
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Sevens
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Re: Reloads

Post by Sevens »

techmike, I think your post paints a pretty good argument for what really seems to boil down to one's own ideas & interpretations - and being comfortable with that choice.

One of my buddies won't carry the same "defense" ammo as I do because it could (easily) be argued that the product is geared toward hunting. I can't say that he's wrong and I don't dismiss his take on it... in fact, I think it's accurate. But even though I refuse to carry my own home-rolled, I don't worry much about my particular choice being marketed toward hunting.

The are no hard & fast rules here...and making your own assessment and interpretation and going with it...is good enough for me.

I don't get annoyed when a handloader claims that he can make quality, reliable ammo that he might bet his life on.
I do get annoyed when the same pompous handloader sits on his high horse and also claims that he's carrying his own ammo because the factory stuff is of suspect quality and might give him a failure to fire...while there's no chance that his will. :roll:
I like to swap brass... and I'm looking for .32 H&R Mag, .327 Fed Mag, .380 Auto and 10mm. If you have some and would like to swap for something else, send me a note!
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