Slow powder 45acp experiments

[suedenflames68]

I loaded up some 45acp with the powders I have on hand: 800x,longshot, and power pistol.

Used 1.26 coal, fed primers, 230 gr Zero fmj bullets, lee fcd 1/2 turn.

Found several sources for all. But PP had a HUGE spread on loading info. I started at lowest starting load i found for all.

LS 6.3-6.8 @ 1.2 (one source had 7.0 max but at 1.275)

PP 6.4-7.2 @ 1.275 ( but alliant and lee list it for 7.1-8.1 @ 1.26)

800x 6.3-7.0 @ 1.2

Interestingly the PP had increased recoil compared to the other powders eventhough in the books it should have been the slowest at these charges. Have experienced that with other loads and this really confirms it to me, PP really is just a loud mean powder

800x left a lot of unburned powder but was probably the best group. (I shot a 2-3" group with a 3 leaf clover at 50' with 5 rounds at 6.3 gr.)

LS workd well and i think is going to be my pick

PP had the increased recoil and no real advantage i could tell.

Starting loads were similar to PMC with the exception of the PP. It felt like it was a step or two up already. I cant imagine what it would feel like with the 8.1gr load.

Wish i had a chronograph and that I was a better shot to put more faith in my groups but with what i have to go with, and the fact that i have a 8lb jug of LS, i think its the winner for this round. Had my best group with it at 6.5 so I think thats my pick.

Anyone use any of these powders for 45? Thoughts? Ideas? Concerns? Amazed by my gramatical abilities?

James

[Sevens]

Longshot is a really good powder... so I think ya are half goofy for using it in up heavy charge weights trying to make it do a job for which it is FAR from optimum.

If this is an exercise because components are scarce and you just can't find a fast burning powder ANYWHERE, then I see why you've taken the time and done the workup. If, however, it's an end-run because you don't want to add a fourth powder to your cabinet... I think that's an idea that will serve you very poorly.

As you well know, those three powders you do have all work in the same range. For rolling .45 Auto ammo, you've got a myriad of better choices out there, assuming you can find some in stock. Bullseye, AA#2 or #5, Universal, Unique, Green Dot, Red Dot, Promo, Titegroup, American Select, and that's not even including the Ramshot line that I am unfamiliar with.

I believe of the three you are trying... Power Pistol is probably closest for .45 Auto, but I still wouldn't go that route. I burn a heap of Power Pistol doing other things... so no way I'm going to be using it at 1.5x to 1.75x the charge weight that I'd use a proper powder -- just to force it to work out of it's range.

To be clear, I don't think this is any manner of "dangerous" whatsoever, so it does make for a good learning experience. But it kind of seems like purchasing bottles of Perrier...to wash the dog.

[Gaspode]

In other words Sevens experimented once or twice on college... He didn't like it.

[Sevens]

I did.
You were 10.

To the topic... if you really wanna load up some .45's with Longshot, I should introduce you to Mr. Johnny Rowland!
HOO-BOY!
Gaspode shot it.
He whimpered... like a 10-year old.

[suedenflames68]

It was mostly because of powder shortage, but also for the sake of learning/experimentation. Went to buckeye outdoors, cabelas, fff and Ohio valley between yesterday and today, came up with some win231 and trailboss at cabelas. So I'll try those out too.

Found some benchmark and rem 7.5 primers for starting into loading for the AR too.

Bought a couple boxes of 35 gr vmax to try for the 22tcm. and 300mp powder for it since i couldnt find the h110 win296 i found info for. Just gotta decide if im brave enough to go completely offbook to try it. but thats a bit down the road before i worry about that one.

Really have liked longshot in everything ive tried it in so far. I think it must be a secret though because it seems fairly easy to find still.

460 Rowland conversation for the 1911 is on my WANT list

James

[suedenflames68]

Looks like Trailboss is for lead only.. bummer. Should have researched that first but it was there on the shelf and i remembered reading something about it that made me think i wanted to try it.

I thought it was cheap too at $17 but its only 9oz instead of a pound. That one will go hide on the back of the shelf for a while i guess.

So I'll try out the 231 and see how that goes. Thats another one with a big spread on the data from different sources
4.2-5.3 from Hodgdon
5.0-5.7 from Hornady
5.2-5.8 from Lyman (but longer COAL)

I think I'll choose to believe Hodgdon on that one and start low.

Got a Hornady book today and looked up the PP load. They have the start as 5.5 I thought i was going pretty low with it already at 6.4 , Might have to give that a shot also.

[BobK]

I haven't used those powders, but I have loaded .45 ACP with Ramshot True Blue (a little slower than 800X), Ramshot Silhouette ('bout midway between 800X and Longshot), and AA #7 (about the same as Longshot).

I liked the AA #7 the least. Lot of unburnt powder and noticeably snappier recoil than the other two. Of those three, I really like Ramshot True Blue, and have another 4 lbs on order.

My normal .45 ACP powders are Hodgon Clays and Ramshot Competition, which are both very fast powders.

[mreising]

231 has been my powder of choice for 230 gr cast lead and 230gr Rainier plated bullets in 45 ACP

[suedenflames68]

231 has been my powder of choice for 230 gr cast lead and 230gr Rainier plated bullets in 45 ACP

What kinda charge weight do you use if you don't mind?



I almost messed up like with the trailboss and bought international clays today, but looked it up before buying it.

James

[mreising]

231 has been my powder of choice for 230 gr cast lead and 230gr Rainier plated bullets in 45 ACP

What kinda charge weight do you use if you don't mind?



I almost messed up like with the trailboss and bought international clays today, but looked it up before buying it.

James

I don't usually like to make load recommendations because what works in mine may not be appropriate in yours. I also note that the current Hodgdon max load data seems to be lower than what I was using in the past so I think they may have revised the data downward. Hodgdon's website lists 4.3 gr of 231for 699 fps to 5.3 gr for 834 fps with 230 grain lead round nose. My load was higher than that according to my notes.

[mreising]

Something to keep in mind, Hodgdon lists a cartridge overall length (COL) of 1.200" and Hornady lists 1.210"; my loads tend towards the longer and are in the range of loads from the Hornady data.

[suedenflames68]

Thanks. I always do a work up on it anyway. Just looking for a general idea of what works well for you as another point of referance, and you have basically given me that. So thanks again. I usually go up at a rate of .2 grains from start to max and see what does well checking brass along the way and mixing in a factory round in each mag to compare recoil.

James

[mreising]

Thanks. I always do a work up on it anyway. Just looking for a general idea of what works well for you as another point of referance, and you have basically given me that. So thanks again. I usually go up at a rate of .2 grains from start to max and see what does well checking brass along the way and mixing in a factory round in each mag to compare recoil.

James

I figured you would read between the lines.

[bunkeru2k]

I have loaded .45 and 9mm with nothing but Win 231 for the last few years. I mostly ran 2 loads.....the first being 4.4 and then I settled on 4.6 as my normal range round. With the 4.4 load it cycled fine, but with the standard spring the ejection was weak enough that it barely cleared a 18" out of the gun. I never had a failed to eject running it, but I threw in softer springs to shoot it anyway. The 4.6 would run fine with standard spring and you could pretty much hammer it out like you were shooting a 9mm.

Those were all shot with 230grn lead or plated bullets. I cannot speak to running FMJ.

[suedenflames68]

I have loaded .45 and 9mm with nothing but Win 231 for the last few years. I mostly ran 2 loads.....the first being 4.4 and then I settled on 4.6 as my normal range round. With the 4.4 load it cycled fine, but with the standard spring the ejection was weak enough that it barely cleared a 18" out of the gun. I never had a failed to eject running it, but I threw in softer springs to shoot it anyway. The 4.6 would run fine with standard spring and you could pretty much hammer it out like you were shooting a 9mm.

Those were all shot with 230grn lead or plated bullets. I cannot speak to running FMJ.

Thanks for your input. I tried out my test loads tonight and found VERY similar results. Im going to load up several at 4.6. Yes, very soft recoil, similar to 9mm. I didnt experiance any failures from 4.2 - 5.6 and no bad pressure signs. I really cant believe i didnt have any problems at 4.2 because it moved the slide so slow that it felt weird shooting it. I think 5.2 felt about like factory ammo. I shot a 2" group at 50' with the 4.6 load and that is about the best i can expect out of ME. I need to get some bags or something to rest on.

I tried out the PP at 5.5 - 6.1 it functioned fine. I cant remember for sure and i didnt write it down but im thinking my 5.7 or 5.9 load aproximately reproduced factory felt recoil for me. Im really going to have to get a chronograph, if nothing else, to do a longshot vs power pistol shootout. Based on advertised velocities the longshot usually has less felt recoil at equal or faster velocities compared to the PP for the stuff ive loaded. Ide really like to see if all that recoil is really getting me anything.

James