Reloading Problem: Failure to go into battery.

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BobK
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Reloading Problem: Failure to go into battery.

Post by BobK »

OK, as some of you may know, I am new to reloading. My latest iteration is still not producing acceptable rounds. I am loading 200 gr LSWC in .45ACP with Accurate #7 powder, and shooting them with a ParaOrdnance 14-45 Night-Tac.

The rounds feed into the chamber, but the gun does not go into battery for a high percentage of rounds. Today had 15 of 40 rounds where the slide was pushed anywhere from 1/8 to 1/4 inch back from being in battery. I used 4 different mags and the problem was consistent.

When I drop that mag and clear the gun, each of the failed rounds had some crud on it. When I clean the crud off and replace on top of the magazine, then the round loads and shoots using either the slide release or a slingshot.

I had the same problem earlier this week, so today I took 40 test rounds to the range. The case mouth and bullet of each round was carefully cleaned with a scotch-brite pad and I had 10 rounds each measuring 1.240", 1.245", 1.250", and 1.255". The gun was cleaned to a mirror finish before going to the range.

Clean round:
Image
Two example rounds that failed to go into battery were:
Image
Image

Now, I have also noticed the rounds are getting a dent in the bullet during feeding:
Image
I assume lead chips from dented bullets combined with powder residue is the crud creator. Probably doesn't help that Accurate #7 is a dirty powder.

Has anyone else had feeding problems with LSWC bullets in ParaOrdnance .45's? I can't believe those dents are a good thing. The Para's have an integral ramped barrel.

After the 40 test rounds, without cleaning the gun, I shot 30 Winchester White hardball rounds without any misfeeds or problems.

Anyone have any suggestions? This reloader newbie is stumped.
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Buckshot
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Post by Buckshot »

BobK,

You have chosen the WORST bullet in the world to try this with!

SWCs in the M1911 are the hardest thing in the world to make feed in general.

This time, it looks like you are getting burned powder, lead chips, possibly from the noses and possibly cuttings from bullet seating somehow retained AND a spray of lube as the bullet comes out of the case.

You can try varying seating depth and crimp. You can watch carefully for shavings from seating and clean all your loads carefully. You can even try different bullets if you are buying them or different lube if you are casting them.

Or, you can just quit using the SWC and switch to cast 220 - 230 grn RN bullets, and the problems will ALL go away.

Buckshot
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calvin56
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Post by calvin56 »

That is a hard bullet to work with but I would check the gun first. Start with a clean gun and clean ammo. Load up and cycle the rounds through the gun by hand, Laying them out in the order they come out of the gun. Go through the whole 40. If you have no problems it's not the gun.

If you do, start looking at the rounds beginning with the first to cycle through the gun. Does the crud begin to build up on the rounds? Does it start on one side of the case and build more with each round?

If this is happening polish the ramp. The Para has a fully supported chamber and both of mine showed machine marks on the ramp. Neither would feed lead consistantly until they were polished.

The bullet nose left lead on the coarse ramp and the case would pick it up. After polishing the noses still had a dent but lost no lead. No more failures.
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mauser
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Post by mauser »

I agree with Buckshot. That is a doozee of a bullet/gun combination for a first load. Don't let that discourage you from reloading. Try a RN plated or jacketed and see how it goes with the para.
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Dr. Winston
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Post by Dr. Winston »

Did you check your O.A.L. first?
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Sasquatch.45
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Post by Sasquatch.45 »

I noticed from two of your pictures that the bullets appeared to be seated at an angle, notice how, in the second photo, the lead is higher above the rim on the left, than on the right.
A close examination of the top photo indicates that there is a gap at the left edge of the case, and the right edge of the case shows signs of shaved lead, indicating again that the bullet might not be seated squarely.
I would examine the seating die, so see if the core is bent, dented, or has something stuck in it on one side.
If you are experiencing difficulties getting it into the case, you may wish to try increasing the belling after the initial sizing.
You should not be shaving lead during seating, and there should not be any burs of lead left to remove when it is done.
My suspicion is that you have multiple little problem, some mentioned already, and some not.
There are other issues that it could be, but I would start here, and fix the obvious first.
You might also want to check the crimp to make sure that it is tight enough, you should not be able to push the bullet into the case, or wiggle it.
If it is too loose, and you are experiencing chambering problems because of the bullet shape, it will further exacerbate the problem by letting the bullet move around as it collides into the feed-ramp, or top of the chamber.
If the bullets are forced further into the case than you intended, then there is the potential for increasing the pressure t levels greater than intended by the original recipe.
I wish that I could look at your ammo, set-up and gun. If we could eliminate the things that are not a problem, then we could fix this faster.
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Sasquatch.45
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Post by Sasquatch.45 »

An after thought, some of the lead and gunk you are seeing could have been shaved from the edge of the bullets as they are forced deeper into the case (at an angle) when it collides with the feed-ramp.
Did you cast your own bullets?
If so, did you use a sizing die?
Are you using too soft of an alloy? (any scrap containing cadmium is a no-no!)
If it is too soft, try adding tin or antimony to the melt
There is a way that you can adjust the opening of the lips on the magazine, to allow the bullets to feed up at a steeper angle, but be warned. If you are not absolutely sure what you are doing, don’t try this, as it is possible to create more problems than you fix. If you open them too much, other ammo may nose-up into the top of the chamber, creating a different type of jamb.
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Jerry Morris
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Post by Jerry Morris »

These appear to be seat too far out to me. Also they do seem to be canted as well.

Jerry
shooterwolf
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Post by shooterwolf »

I agree with Jerry, it looks like your oal is to long.
You should only see about a thumbnail thickness of bullet shoulder above your case.

What the diameter of your bullet? What is your crimp? You didn't say what your powder charge was, could be to light and your slide doesn't have enough momentum to feed the round.

Have you had any problems loading any other bullets (fmj, lrn) for this gun.


Shooterwolf.
screwman
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Post by screwman »

I load my SWC's at 1.245 with a .469 crimp and I have very few problems. I don't have a Para,but, they run good through my various 1911's. You have to experiment a little. Reliabilty should not be an issue with a SWC.
Mike

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BobK
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Post by BobK »

A lot of good ideas for little things to check that I'll play with this weekend.

BTW, most bullets seat without any lead shavings, although the ones that did have lead shavings were thoroughly cleaned off prior to being placed into a magazine. From above, it sounds like maybe I didn't have them seated perfectly square in the case and even though I cleaned the lead shaving off, it still left a crooked bullet.

I know they are firmly crimped because I have turned them on their nose on the bench and tried to push the bullet further into the case. They won't budge.

BTW, these bullets were bought at a PRO Gun Show. They say "VANCE'S" on the box, but have no relationship to the Vance's Shooters Supply retail store in Columbus. I didn't cast them.
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Jerry Morris
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Post by Jerry Morris »

The crimp on the .45 ACP is there not so much for holding the bullet in place, but to smooth out the feeding. Your real holding power should be in the sizing of the brass.

You should be seeing the base of the bullet in the brass. Sort of a coke bottle shape effect. That shelf holds the bullet much better than the crimp. This is another way of telling when your brass is getting a might thin. Not all brass will show this shelf, but it should.

Jerry
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Post by screwman »

I've used Vance bullets before. They work ok. Try opening the case some more if you're shavin' lead or lube when seating. A little more bell will help 'em seat straighter too.
Mike

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Jerry Morris
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Post by Jerry Morris »

screwman wrote:I've used Vance bullets before. They work ok. Try opening the case some more if you're shavin' lead or lube when seating. A little more bell will help 'em seat straighter too.
He should also check the alignment on his press and the dies. I had a RockChucker that was out of alignment that wanted to cant the bullets.

When you set up your dies, put a case in the holder and screw the die down onto it. When the OAL is set, tighten down the ring and then remove the case.

Jerry
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Post by willbird »

Also I hope you are using a TAPER crimp ?? THis is typically a seperate die, often a bullet seater die will crimp and seat both, but often in 45 acp it applies a ROLL CRIMP which we do not want in a gun that headspaces on the case mouth.

Generally trying to seat and crimp all in one go does not work out well. The bullet is still moving as the crimp is applied, and with a few exceptions it does not generally work worth crap :-).

If any lead is shaving as the bullet seats then the process needs some tweaking, IE larger case mouth belling typically.

Bill
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