Reloading Problem: Failure to go into battery.

To learn and introduce new loaders. Tips and tricks from old timers.

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45akp
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Post by 45akp »

I agree with everyone about the crimp. You should be able to see the crimp and in the first lphoto, I can see none.
Do you have a four die set? If not, you need to get a seperate crimping die. Taper crimp only!
BigV
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Post by BigV »

45akp wrote:I agree with everyone about the crimp. You should be able to see the crimp and in the first lphoto, I can see none.
Do you have a four die set? If not, you need to get a seperate crimping die. Taper crimp only!
The die set I have is a 3 die set from RCBS, but the 3rd die seats the bullet, then move the seater plug up and the die down 1/8” and it then crimps as well.
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BobK
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Post by BobK »

willbird wrote:Also I hope you are using a TAPER crimp ?? THis is typically a seperate die, often a bullet seater die will crimp and seat both, but often in 45 acp it applies a ROLL CRIMP which we do not want in a gun that headspaces on the case mouth.

Generally trying to seat and crimp all in one go does not work out well. The bullet is still moving as the crimp is applied, and with a few exceptions it does not generally work worth crap :-).
I am using a 5 die set on a Lee Loadmaster.
  • Station #1 - Lee Universal Decapping Die
  • Station #2 - Lee Carbide Sizing Die + Priming
  • Station #3 - Lee Powder Through Expanding Die
  • Station #4 - Lee Bullet Seating Die (3 turns out -- no crimping at this station only seating.
  • Station #5 - Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die
willbird wrote:If any lead is shaving as the bullet seats then the process needs some tweaking, IE larger case mouth belling typically.
I'll keep tweaking that. If the bullets are .452, shouldn't the cases be belled out to about .451?
I am a: NRA Life Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Texas Firearms Coalition Gold member, OFCC Patron Member, former JFPO member (pre-SAF).

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shooterwolf
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Post by shooterwolf »

Case should be belled just enough to start your bullet. Final crimp .479-.471


Shooterwolf.
mbradst
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Post by mbradst »

If you look through a few of the more popular reloading forums, they talk about the Lee Factory Crimp Die being used in 45ACP, specifically lead bullets. I believe the die has a post sizing ring in it that will size or swage a.452 diameter bullet to .451. You can knock the ring out of the die, or send it to Lee for them to polish it, for $30. Or you can buy a different crimp die.
Buckshot
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Post by Buckshot »

BobK wrote:A lot of good ideas for little things to check that I'll play with this weekend.

BTW, most bullets seat without any lead shavings, although the ones that did have lead shavings were thoroughly cleaned off prior to being placed into a magazine. From above, it sounds like maybe I didn't have them seated perfectly square in the case and even though I cleaned the lead shaving off, it still left a crooked bullet.

I know they are firmly crimped because I have turned them on their nose on the bench and tried to push the bullet further into the case. They won't budge.

BTW, these bullets were bought at a PRO Gun Show. They say "VANCE'S" on the box, but have no relationship to the Vance's Shooters Supply retail store in Columbus. I didn't cast them.
BobK,

Those bullets are NOT that great a bullet.

They have had LOTS of QC problems. I have seen then SIZED CROOKED before.

They have also had major problems with lube, some bullets almost no lube, others covered over the sized surface and sometimes even the nose and base.

THAT may be half of your trouble right there.

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deanimator
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Post by deanimator »

1. I started reloading 200gr. LSWCs for my Series 70 Colt in the '70s. Once I got seating depth and charge down, I haven't had any problems since, and in every other M1911 I own.

2. In my experience, feeding is best with just a sliver of the shoulder showing over the case mouth. Much more than that will give you failures to go into battery, if not outright failures to feed.

3. Are you using enough crimp? I HIGHLY recommend that you seat and TAPER crimp as SEPARATE operations. That will pretty much eliminate issues with lead shaving. Also make sure that you bell your case mouths enough so that the bullets seat easily. Bell enough that the bullet will sit in the case mouth when you let it go. Bell ONLY enough to accomplish that. You will have to experiment.

4. You can use your barrel as a "go/no-go" gauge. Clear and strip your pistol. Take the barrel and hold it muzzle down. Drop a loaded round into the CLEAN chamber. If it easily seats to the proper depth, you've at least got the crimp right, and don't have the bullet hitting the lands. If you have any doubts about the right depth, just use a factory round for comparison. About ten years ago, a friend and I were experimenting with (then) heavy bullet loads for the 9x19mm. He had a Glock, while I had a High Power. Rounds which he loaded, sometimes wouldn't chamber in my High Power, but would work in his Glock 17. I found that using the "go/no-go" technique saved me a lot of trouble at the range.

Using these techniques, I have no problems with ANY of my .45acp firearms, from a S&W 25-2 revolver to a Norinco M1911.
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Post by willbird »

Yes I agree bell enough so that the bullets do not shave, on a progressive you need a bit more bell than on a single stage due to the fact that you can not "babysit" the bullet seating process as well as on a single stage.

Also it is possible that some of the lead on the front of your cases is simply due to not cleaning the bullet seater die enough while your loading ?? There will be some incidental crud buildup in there when using lead projectiles that you have to clean out now and then.

Bill
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BobK
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Post by BobK »

willbird wrote:Also it is possible that some of the lead on the front of your cases is simply due to not cleaning the bullet seater die enough while your loading ?? There will be some incidental crud buildup in there when using lead projectiles that you have to clean out now and then.
I've never cleaned it. Didn't know I was supposed to. :oops:

What other dies shold I be cleaning and when?
I am a: NRA Life Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Texas Firearms Coalition Gold member, OFCC Patron Member, former JFPO member (pre-SAF).

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evan price
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Post by evan price »

It's always a good idea to take a quick look over all the dies; I know that if I have had some less-than-clean cases the resizer can get grit in it, and when I load wax lubed lead the seater gets so full of **** that it will start seating deeper and deeper...
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deanimator
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Post by deanimator »

evan price wrote:It's always a good idea to take a quick look over all the dies; I know that if I have had some less-than-clean cases the resizer can get grit in it, and when I load wax lubed lead the seater gets so full of **** that it will start seating deeper and deeper...
I once wrecked a set of .357 dies running dirty cases through them. I ALWAYS thoroughly clean cases now.
Sasquatch.45
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Post by Sasquatch.45 »

deanimator wrote:
evan price wrote:It's always a good idea to take a quick look over all the dies; I know that if I have had some less-than-clean cases the resizer can get grit in it, and when I load wax lubed lead the seater gets so full of **** that it will start seating deeper and deeper...
I once wrecked a set of .357 dies running dirty cases through them. I ALWAYS thoroughly clean cases now.
It seems like everyone starts reloading with the intention of retaining and using the bare essentials, but they soon discover that experience dictates that the bar of what is essential gradually keeps getting raised higher and higher.
I started reloading with a thirty dollar O-frame press that I got at a gun-show, and a fifteen dollar {deleted - JK} scale that lee marketed as a ‘safety scale’, or something to that likes.
I quickly got fed up with that, then spent another $112 to get a Pro-!000, and fought with it for about fifteen years.
As time went on, I found that I continued to want to streamline the production process, multi-task, and minimize down time, so I was continuing to add, replace and upgrade equipment.
As items were replaced they were frequently sold on E-bay, and the cash recovered was rolled back into my addiction.
As I look at my reloading bench now ,I see two case tumblers, and have since found them to be indispensable necessities.
I hate to say this outright, as it might discourage budget conscious perspective re-loaders, but a case tumbler should almost be put on the list on necessities.
The reason that I use two is that I load multiple calibers, and the racket of two tumblers running is not really any more noticeable than one.
One thing that you do not want to do is mix calibers in the tumbler with the intent of sorting them later.
What tends to happen is that the .40s get jammed into the .45s, and the 9mms and the .380s get jammed inside of the .40s, and any combination thereof gets caked together by tumbling-medium working into the spaces between, some times so tight as to necessitate the use of a pair of needle-nose pliers to separate the mess.
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Jerry Morris
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Post by Jerry Morris »

BobK wrote: I've never cleaned it. Didn't know I was supposed to. :oops:

What other dies shold I be cleaning and when?
Your dies are precision tools. They deserve the same care as your firearm. Not only should they be kept clean and protected against corrosion, you should not run dirty cases through them, not even the carbide dies. At a very minimum, wipe off your cases with a clean oily wipe, bearing in mind to keep the oil out of the primer pocket area, or the flash hole. I use a case cleaning machine made by Dillon and then wipe the dust off the cases with a lightly oiled wipe.

Dirty, scratched and corroded dies are just so much scrap metal.

Jerry
Jerry Morris
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Post by Jerry Morris »

Sasquatch.45 wrote: It seems like everyone starts reloading with the intention of retaining and using the bare essentials, but they soon discover that experience dictates that the bar of what is essential gradually keeps getting raised higher and higher.
You can be a minimalist. It just demands that you do not mind preparation times. You can set down and watch your favorite TV show and clean cases by hand. You do need an accurate powder scale.

This just is not my way of doing it. I have got most of the gadgets.

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Music Man
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Post by Music Man »

I know .45 are a straight wall case but a problem I ran into 2 decades ago was using a different manufacturers shellholder than dies. Lee die with an RCBS shellholder. The small difference caused my cases to not size properly hence causing them not to completely seat in the chamber.

Just thought I would pass that on.
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