Vance Bullets

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Vance Bullets

Postby mzimov » Sun Mar 09, 2008 5:41 am

I've been using Vance lead bullets for a few years now; I shoot about 500 rounds a week. I've used the 45 cal. 200 gr. LSWC and the 230 gr. LRN. These are about the most affordable bullets available locally in bulk. Lately, the price has been increased from $29/500 to $32/500 at a gun store in Cincinnati, $35 at the gun shows directly from Vance's (I don't know why they are higher at the gun shows, but I refuse to buy them there out of principle).

My issue revolves around quality control. Lately, seems like every other box has bullets encased in blue lube. So much lube is left on the bullets that it builds up on the mouth of my chamber, and throws the accuracy off substantially. Why is the price going up and the quality going down? Maybe the store I buy them from gets the bottom of the barrel in terms of quality, but they aren't sold as seconds.

I'm experimenting with other manufacturers' bullets from the internet. Missouri Bullet Company has a decent price and seems to promote quality, so we'll see. Anyway, someone needs to send Vance's a message about jacking up prices on crap. Nothing is as dissappointing as opening a box of badly needed bullets and finding they need scraping with a pocket knife prior to loading.
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Postby Brian D. » Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:13 am

Vance's has had those issues before. They are a small outfit attempting to serve a rather large customer base, and sometimes the hurry-up shows in that manner. By all means, look around at what their competitors are offering.
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Postby weakhand luke » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:24 pm

26,000 rounds a year! I probably don't shoot that in five years. I can appreciate your sensitivity to lead prices. Even at the amount of shooting I do, I decided to cast my own. Saves a lot of money. You'd need only 750 pounds of lead a year to cast 26,000 45's.

And my wife thinks I shoot a lot...
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Postby evan price » Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:21 pm

I can save you some money and get you some good bullets.

I use KEAD hardcast bullets available from www.keadbullets.com

His prices are about the best I can find for hard alloy bullets.

230-rn's are $60 per thousand, and 200 LSWC are $54 per thousand. They will ship USPS flat rate insured for $11 for 2000 in one box.

If you want smaller bullets such as 9mm he can get 3000 in one box for the same USPS flat rate price.

Right now I get 3000 9mm 125-RN for $128 shipped.

I like their alloy, it is 21 brinell and 90/8/2 and it does not lead up my barrels. I have shot a lot of KEAD and recommend them. Their only issue is he does not like to keep inventory so he does batch runs, and if he does not have what you want it might take a couple of weeks to get some.
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Postby mzimov » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:15 pm

That's a good price. I'll try a thousand and see how they work. Thanks.
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Re: Vance Bullets

Postby dardascastbullets » Fri Mar 27, 2009 7:33 pm

Designing a commercial bullet lubricant to meet several specifications is a scientific as well as an artistic endeavor to say the least. Scientific in that it has to lubricate the bore, produce as little smoke as possible, retain itself in the lube ring(s) without pulling out, and allow easy reloading through bullet drop tubes. Artistic in that it has to be presentable (texture, color, adherence - or lack thereof, and smell - or lack thereof again). Rolling all of these criteria together presents a real challenge but one that is attainable when each item is solved individually.

Your problem is one that cannot be remedied without warming the bullets and then reapplying some other form of lubricant. The existing lubricant has to be removed to rid the bullets' surfaces to prevent buildup in your seating die. However, you may not have the accessories to reapply another bullet lubricant which makes the matter even more 'sticky'. There is however, another method that you might want to consider; that is to apply Johnson's Paste wax to the cleaned bullets. The Paste Wax will dry and will provide enough lubricating properties to allow you to shoot those cast bullets. Sounds like a lot of work but it may be your only option to use them. The Paste Wax can be applied by inserting a few bullets into a jar and a spoonful of Paste Wax deposited into it as well. A few dozen shakes in a warm atmosphere will evenly coat all the bullets. Remove the bullets and let them dry on a flat surface.

I trust that this information will help you decide which method best suits your needs to allow you to shoot those bullets and not throw them out.
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Re: Vance Bullets

Postby BobK » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:02 pm

dardascastbullets wrote:Designing a commercial bullet lubricant to meet several specifications is a scientific as well as an artistic endeavor to say the least.

Welcome to the forum, Matt!
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Re: Vance Bullets

Postby tmcblane » Fri Mar 27, 2009 8:26 pm

Thanks for the Link to your bullets Matt! I have bookmarked it and will give you a shot (no pun intended..............well maybe a little :lol: ) when I am ready to reorder.
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Re: Vance Bullets

Postby dclaarjr » Fri Mar 27, 2009 9:44 pm

I checked out you website Matt. I will be placing an order when I get back from vacation.
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Re: Vance Bullets

Postby dardascastbullets » Sat Mar 28, 2009 3:33 pm

BobK wrote:
dardascastbullets wrote:Designing a commercial bullet lubricant to meet several specifications is a scientific as well as an artistic endeavor to say the least.

Welcome to the forum, Matt!


Thanks for the welcome Bob!

I felt compelled to respond to mzimov's post to offer a viable solution so that he could reload and shoot those bullets with as little correctional effort as possible. I hope that he gets a chance to read my post and try the remedy - it does work.
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Re: Vance Bullets

Postby bunkeru2k » Mon Mar 30, 2009 12:32 pm

I have definitely had major issues with the ungodly amount of lube on the vance lead. It really is fairly sticky lube and is kind of a pain to remove it. I have been tumbling rounds with walnut media after loading for about 10 minutes and it has seemed to help remove a majority of it. The other real issue with them is that they really have a tendency to have just a touch of lead outside of their normal tolerances. It has caused me major problems with getting their 200 grn RNFP .45 to chamber at all. The 185 SWC shoots like a champ and does not seem to have as much of a problem with that, but it does consistently have more of an issue with excessive lube.
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Re: Vance Bullets

Postby willbird » Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:24 pm

There is a fine balance when lubing bullets, between temperature and lube pressure. It can be tough to keep it perfect. When it is imperfect lube ends up in places other than the grooves. Sometimes it transfers there from the other bullets, sometimes it shoots there while the bullet is in the die.

Many production bullet lubes are more focused on looking pretty and allowing bulk packaging than anything else. This is why most home users never use those lubes.

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Re: Vance Bullets

Postby dardascastbullets » Sun Apr 12, 2009 9:34 pm

willbird wrote:There is a fine balance when lubing bullets, between temperature and lube pressure. It can be tough to keep it perfect. When it is imperfect lube ends up in places other than the grooves. Sometimes it transfers there from the other bullets, sometimes it shoots there while the bullet is in the die.

Many production bullet lubes are more focused on looking pretty and allowing bulk packaging than anything else. This is why most home users never use those lubes.

Bill


Actually, applying bullet lubricant to cast bullets is quite an easy operation as long as the quality control is carried out religiously (monitoring temperature, and pressure) and recording that information for documentation. Perfectly lubricated bullets can be produced as long as the QC is carried out repetitively. Zero QC = Zero quality. A properly engineered bullet lubricant will solve all the individual elements of the bullet 'equation'.
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Re: Vance Bullets

Postby weakhand luke » Mon Apr 13, 2009 6:52 am

An ol' timer once told me, "ya can't make a bullet bad enuff that it won't perform great at 50 feet".

My bullets usually look like I've tried to prove him wrong.
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Re: Vance Bullets

Postby willbird » Mon Apr 13, 2009 12:35 pm

dardascastbullets wrote:
willbird wrote:There is a fine balance when lubing bullets, between temperature and lube pressure. It can be tough to keep it perfect. When it is imperfect lube ends up in places other than the grooves. Sometimes it transfers there from the other bullets, sometimes it shoots there while the bullet is in the die.

Many production bullet lubes are more focused on looking pretty and allowing bulk packaging than anything else. This is why most home users never use those lubes.

Bill


Actually, applying bullet lubricant to cast bullets is quite an easy operation as long as the quality control is carried out religiously (monitoring temperature, and pressure) and recording that information for documentation. Perfectly lubricated bullets can be produced as long as the QC is carried out repetitively. Zero QC = Zero quality. A properly engineered bullet lubricant will solve all the individual elements of the bullet 'equation'.


I'm speaking of applying bullet lube with equipment more on the level of home user. Specifically Star lube sizers. I realize you do not use them for commercial purposes. Many many home users find popular commercial bullet lubes to not be optimum for anything except ease of application and tolerance for bulk shipping.

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