Removed (temporarily) from a Cincinnati Metro Bus today

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

Moderators: Coordinators, Moderators

Removed (temporarily) from a Cincinnati Metro Bus today

Postby BB62 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:09 pm

As some may recall, last year I was thrown off a Cincinnati Metro (Southern Ohio Regional Transit Authority - SORTA) bus last year while openly carrying. You can read more about that incident here: viewtopic.php?f=27&t=88656

Prior to that event there had been lots of communication with the City of Cincinnati (which owns the streetcar) regarding their and Metro's firearm carry policies. In the end, what I received from Metro was unsatisfactory, but because issues were and still are ongoing with Dayton's RTA, I decided to leave it lay until this year.

Last weekend a friend and I rode multiple buses as well as the streetcar. We had no issues, but because of Metro's *apparently non-existent training* following last year's incident, I had a sneaking suspicion that the issue was not resolved. Today confirmed that suspicion.

As I boarded the bus, the bus driver saw my gun(s) and said "Do you have a permit?". I said yes and she asked to see it. For multiple reasons I said no, but said that I'd be glad to show it to a police officer. I went to the back of the bus and sat down. The bus driver parked the bus and got on the bus phone, apparently to summon a supervisor.

About 25 minutes later the supervisor arrived and asked if I had a permit. I told her that I did have a license, she asked to see it, and I told her that I would be glad to show a police officer or someone in law enforcement. She flashed her badge (LOL) and said she *was* law enforcement! She told me that since I was delaying the bus, she would have the police officers (who'd apparently been summoned) remove me from the bus.

Two Cincinnati Police officers arrived, and as I stepped forward to exit the rear door, CHL & drivers license in hand, one of the officers boarded the bus and asked me to get off. I got off and offered my CHL and driver's license to the officer, who took my driver's license back to his vehicle, followed by the Metro supervisor. My CHL remained with the other officer.

After checking me out (thank goodness CPD doesn't have SCMODS!), the officer talked to the supervisor for a few minutes, then came back, returned my driver's license, and said I was good to go.

I told the Metro supervisor that I needed a new transfer ticket (they cost $.50 and are good for two hours after you board), she got me one, and 42 minutes after I boarded the bus for the first time, we got back on the road.

I'll save the return trip story for another post - although there were no police involved, I was interviewed on the bus by a CityBeat reporter, and asked if I minded if my picture was taken by another passenger and the bus driver.



P.S. - SCMODS: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G1aIGqrGqnU&t=1m6s
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

Got Freedom?

Accountant, Computer & Management Consultant
Scuba Diver, NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor
User avatar
BB62
 
Posts: 2513
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:57 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Removed (temporarily) from a Cincinnati Metro Bus today

Postby Face » Sat Feb 18, 2017 6:17 pm

What kind of permit does 1 need for open carry :)

You should have asked -
Totally useless, waste of space, irrelevant, sig.
Face
 
Posts: 501
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:10 pm

Re: Removed (temporarily) from a Cincinnati Metro Bus today

Postby Brian D. » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:43 pm

I hope there is some follow up concerning the Metro supervisor who claimed to be "law enforcement". That sounds like a seriously inaccurate assertion, to the point of being a crime.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Brian D.
 
Posts: 14847
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Removed (temporarily) from a Cincinnati Metro Bus today

Postby TJW815 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 7:56 pm

Face wrote:What kind of permit does 1 need for open carry :)

You should have asked -



He was in a vehicle, even if it was taped to his forehead it's still legally concealed. Does it make sense? NOT ONE BIT.


Regardless, the bus driver and supervisor are not law enforcement and have no right to examine a license.
User avatar
TJW815
 
Posts: 2440
Joined: Wed Oct 10, 2012 7:13 pm
Location: Warren County

Re: Removed (temporarily) from a Cincinnati Metro Bus today

Postby Face » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:15 pm

You're right ...


TJW815 wrote:
Face wrote:What kind of permit does 1 need for open carry :)

You should have asked -



He was in a vehicle, even if it was taped to his forehead it's still legally concealed. Does it make sense? NOT ONE BIT.


Regardless, the bus driver and supervisor are not law enforcement and have no right to examine a license.
Totally useless, waste of space, irrelevant, sig.
Face
 
Posts: 501
Joined: Sat Feb 11, 2012 5:10 pm

Re: Removed (temporarily) from a Cincinnati Metro Bus today

Postby BB62 » Sat Feb 18, 2017 8:31 pm

Brian D. wrote:I hope there is some follow up concerning the Metro supervisor who claimed to be "law enforcement". That sounds like a seriously inaccurate assertion, to the point of being a crime.

Yes, a records request on that and other subjects will be forthcoming. :wink:
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

Got Freedom?

Accountant, Computer & Management Consultant
Scuba Diver, NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor
User avatar
BB62
 
Posts: 2513
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:57 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Removed (temporarily) from a Cincinnati Metro Bus today

Postby djthomas » Sat Feb 18, 2017 9:25 pm

Food for thought.

Carrying a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle, concealed or not, is a felony unless one has a CHL. Any person may make an arrest when there is probable cause to believe that a felony has been committed. As government employees, transit employees may enjoy a greater degree of immunity than a private citizen if they screw up in this area.

Since carrying on a bus without a license is a felony, I could see the transit authorities saying they are well within their rights to have law enforcement engage such folks for verification at the risk of considerable delay each time. To do otherwise would be to suggest that their employees turn a blind eye to a potential felony being committed in their presence. A "work-to-rule" if you will. I don't agree with it but I could see that being their argument and frankly it's a tough one to argue against.
TJW815 wrote:He was in a vehicle, even if it was taped to his forehead it's still legally concealed.

This is a common misconception. No, it's not "legally concealed." It's just that the mode of carry is irrelevant as the section of code governing the handling of firearms in a motor vehicle (ORC 2923.16) does not distinguish between open or concealed carry. The penalty for improperly handling a loaded handgun in a vehicle is the same as carrying a loaded handgun concealed on foot (F4).
Brian D. wrote:I hope there is some follow up concerning the Metro supervisor who claimed to be "law enforcement". That sounds like a seriously inaccurate assertion, to the point of being a crime.

Now that I agree with. Whether it would go anywhere remains to be seen. The precise wording will be critical. Hopefully there's a recording. Oddly enough it's not illegal to claim to be a law enforcement officer, per se. It's only when you claim to be a peace officer. private police officer, or federal law enforcement officer that you're violating the law per ORC 2921.51.
Never ask if you can carry at a non-posted place, but always ask why you cannot at one that is!
Just because they offer call ahead seating doesn't mean you call ahead for carry permission.
User avatar
djthomas
 
Posts: 5843
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:09 am
Location: Medina County

Re: Removed (temporarily) from a Cincinnati Metro Bus today

Postby SMMAssociates » Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:33 am

In ancient times, or at least before CHL's, a buddy of mine got himself on the local Board of Directors for the WRTA (bus line).

They gave him a nice badge, and a Special Officer's Commission. (Same as mine, at the time, but I'm not sure if he had to go to school. Mine just followed the State's introduction of a requirement to take some OPOTA courses. His was a few years later, but it might have been conveniently forgotten.)

I don't know if this is still being done, but it is (or was) "Law Enforcement" in the same sense as various Private Security folks. Might still be valid....

The only difference between my Law Enforcement status and the guy in the City Black & White was who signed my paycheck. This stuff all drifted apart - the "regular" LEO's now need a lot more education, and it seems like the Security folks barely require anything now....

(I tried to use my OPOTA card to bypass the CHL classroom & range requirement. No go.... 1968 was too old :D....)

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

יזכר לא עד פעם
User avatar
SMMAssociates
 
Posts: 9498
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:36 am
Location: Youngstown OH

Records request to SORTA/Metro

Postby BB62 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:26 am

Mr. Haley,

The following records request is partially based on:

A) the contents of your October 20, 2016 e-mail to me (below), and
B) the particulars of an incident involving an armed passenger on Metro bus #9023, route #19, at Colerain & North Bend Roads, between noon and 1PM this past Saturday, February 18, 2017

Below your 10/20/16 e-mail, I’ve taken the liberty of pasting in the relevant portion of the e-mail chain which prompted your October note.

** RECORDS REQUEST **

Pursuant to Ohio’s Sunshine Law, please send me the following via e-mail where applicable, pdf format preferred for documents (e-mails, reports, memos, etc):

1) With reference to your statement of 10/20/16, a copy of whatever materials SORTA/Metro used at that time “…to ensure that our employees are aware of these state laws and how to properly handle these incidents in the future”.

2) A copy of whatever materials SORTA/Metro currently uses to ensure that your employees are aware of state laws regarding firearm carry on SORTA/Metro buses

3) A copy of whatever materials SORTA/Metro currently uses to inform employees how to handle circumstances involving armed passengers on SORTA/Metro buses

4) A copy of any reports, memos, e-mails, etc. generated as a result of having an openly armed passenger on SORTA/Metro bus #9023, route #19, at Colerain & North Bend Roads, between noon and 1PM on Saturday, February 18, 2017

5) A copy of any video and/or audio recordings related to the circumstances described in item #4, above (call or write to make delivery arrangements)

6) A copy of SORTA/Metro policy describing the procedure to be followed when a passenger requests a business card (for identification purposes) from a SORTA/Metro supervisor

7) A copy of the *law* enforcement training and credentials of SORTA/Metro employee Nicole Pearson (phonetic spelling)

8.) A copy of documentation indentifying the *laws* which Nicole Pearson is empowered by SORTA/Metro to enforce

9) An image of the badge worn by Nicole Pearson

10) A copy of Nicole Pearson’s job description


Please contact me if any of the above items need clarification.


Cordially,

me
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

Got Freedom?

Accountant, Computer & Management Consultant
Scuba Diver, NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor
User avatar
BB62
 
Posts: 2513
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:57 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Records request to CPD/City of Cincinnati

Postby BB62 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:27 am

Captain Bardua,

This past Saturday, February 18, 2017, between noon and 1PM, CPD officers were requested to respond to a Metro bus (route 19, bus #9023) stopped at Colerain & North Bend Roads, on which was an openly armed passenger.

The records request below is in regard to that request for service, and the particulars of the interaction between CPD officers and others.

** RECORDS REQUEST **

Pursuant to Ohio’s Sunshine Law, please send me the following via e-mail where applicable, pdf format preferred for documents (e-mails, reports, memos, etc):

1) An audio copy of the request(s) for service (call or write to make delivery arrangements)

2) A copy of any reports, memos, e-mails, etc. referencing the matter which were generated by the officers who responded to the Metro bus location

3) A copy of any reports, memos, e-mails, etc. regarding the procedure(s) to be followed by officers with regard to similar requests for service on Metro buses or the Cincinnati streetcar

4) A copy of any video and/or audio recordings made by the officers who responded to the Metro bus location (call or write to make delivery arrangements)

5) A copy of CPD’s policy regarding usage of bodycams


Please contact me if any of the above items need clarification.


Cordially,

me
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

Got Freedom?

Accountant, Computer & Management Consultant
Scuba Diver, NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor
User avatar
BB62
 
Posts: 2513
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:57 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Removed (temporarily) from a Cincinnati Metro Bus today

Postby glocksmith » Mon Feb 20, 2017 11:29 am

Did the "openly armed passenger" have his own bodycam? That would be some interesting footage to see.
Give em' Hell Pike!!!
glocksmith
 
Posts: 3918
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:04 am
Location: Cincinnati/SW Ohio

Re: Removed (temporarily) from a Cincinnati Metro Bus today

Postby Chuck » Mon Feb 20, 2017 12:47 pm

Busy, busy, busy!
Go get'em BB62!
Ain't activism fun?

"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington

"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."
- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
User avatar
Chuck
OFCC Director
OFCC Director
 
Posts: 4468
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 7:06 am
Location: Licking County

Re: Removed (temporarily) from a Cincinnati Metro Bus today

Postby BB62 » Mon Feb 20, 2017 4:22 pm

glocksmith wrote:Did the "openly armed passenger" have his own bodycam? That would be some interesting footage to see.

No, he did not - just audio of various parts of the encounter.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

Got Freedom?

Accountant, Computer & Management Consultant
Scuba Diver, NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor
User avatar
BB62
 
Posts: 2513
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:57 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH


Return to Ohio Open Carry Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests