Open carry is bad

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

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Open carry is bad

Postby troy bilt » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:27 pm

So I just cam across this gem at Bearing Arms .com. Just wanted to pass it on and see what you guys thought about it.

http://bearingarms.com/bob-o/2016/10/12 ... amendment/
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby JustaShooter » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:38 pm

Pretty much the same stuff we always hear from the "CC is the only true way" evangelists. Long on hyperbole, short on facts or evidence. I found it quite funny that he denigrates open carriers for the exact same stuff concealed carriers do (or don't do, as the case may be).
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Wed Oct 12, 2016 7:45 pm

He's a troll. Not worth discussing.

From his very own FB page, in regards to that very story:

What fun is having a bear in the zoo if you can't poke it?


:?
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby Morne » Thu Oct 13, 2016 7:19 am

I'm a concealed carrier. I OC only rarely (though I did so this week while installing a Trump for president 4x8' roadside sign). That said, I disagree with a decent chunk of the author's points (but not all):

1 - OC and CC are NOT mutually exclusive. Just because you OC a duty size gun doesn't mean you can't conceal a BUG somewhere else (preferably somewhere easy for your weak hand to draw it). The author acts as if OC'ing means you'll get disarmed and left defenseless the first time you fail to 360-scan for threats and that's just not true.

2 - While CC'ing may be tactically superior in an urban/suburban environment it is no guarantee that the BG won't notice it. Likewise, just because you OC is no guarantee that they will notice it. Had dinner with Chuck and Aaron recently - I doubt our waitress ever saw his OC'ed gun.

3 - His point about gun grabs only failing due to the BG's "ineptitude" is germane. Thing is, criminals have "ineptitude" in spades. I have friends who are prosecutors in several counties - you'd laugh until your sides split if you heard the tales of criminals TEXTING their plans to each other to commit a crime. No, really. Here in Ohio. They (usually) are THAT dumb. The "criminal mastermind" is a fiction created by the entertainment industry.

4 - He completely ignores the EDUCATIONAL aspect of OC. This, in my mind, is the really big benefit to OC. You get to show people who don't realize it that OC is legal, safe and done by normal folks. Sometimes even when the OC causes a confrontation the end result is still positive - witness the recent OC near a barbershop in Akron.

5 - While the author says he wants to roll back all gun laws he misses just how crucial protecting/normalizing OC is to keeping his CC effective. In states that have overbearing laws against "printing" of your concealed rig the result is that deep concealment becomes the only viable choice. That deep concealment is not as effective as OWB with a sweatshirt over it (how I am carrying today, for instance). You're just not going to get your gun out of your Thunderwear faster than me...besides which Zlogonje doesn't make a codpiece holster (yet).
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby Tru-Heathen » Thu Oct 13, 2016 9:07 am

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:He's a troll. Not worth discussing.

From his very own FB page, in regards to that very story:

What fun is having a bear in the zoo if you can't poke it?


:?


I agree.

Must have been a slow news day & the author needed an easy article to post.
(and rack up "page views" for his blog.)
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby M-Quigley » Thu Oct 13, 2016 12:35 pm

Morne wrote:I'm a concealed carrier. I OC only rarely (though I did so this week while installing a Trump for president 4x8' roadside sign). That said, I disagree with a decent chunk of the author's points (but not all):

1 - OC and CC are NOT mutually exclusive. Just because you OC a duty size gun doesn't mean you can't conceal a BUG somewhere else (preferably somewhere easy for your weak hand to draw it). The author acts as if OC'ing means you'll get disarmed and left defenseless the first time you fail to 360-scan for threats and that's just not true.

2 - While CC'ing may be tactically superior in an urban/suburban environment it is no guarantee that the BG won't notice it. Likewise, just because you OC is no guarantee that they will notice it. Had dinner with Chuck and Aaron recently - I doubt our waitress ever saw his OC'ed gun.

3 - His point about gun grabs only failing due to the BG's "ineptitude" is germane. Thing is, criminals have "ineptitude" in spades. I have friends who are prosecutors in several counties - you'd laugh until your sides split if you heard the tales of criminals TEXTING their plans to each other to commit a crime. No, really. Here in Ohio. They (usually) are THAT dumb. The "criminal mastermind" is a fiction created by the entertainment industry.

4 - He completely ignores the EDUCATIONAL aspect of OC. This, in my mind, is the really big benefit to OC. You get to show people who don't realize it that OC is legal, safe and done by normal folks. Sometimes even when the OC causes a confrontation the end result is still positive - witness the recent OC near a barbershop in Akron.

5 - While the author says he wants to roll back all gun laws he misses just how crucial protecting/normalizing OC is to keeping his CC effective. In states that have overbearing laws against "printing" of your concealed rig the result is that deep concealment becomes the only viable choice. That deep concealment is not as effective as OWB with a sweatshirt over it (how I am carrying today, for instance). You're just not going to get your gun out of your Thunderwear faster than me...besides which Zlogonje doesn't make a codpiece holster (yet).


I was going to respond to the OP, but this reply essentially says what I wanted to say much better than I could. :)
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby Darkness » Thu Oct 13, 2016 1:02 pm

Instead of deterrence, we’ve found numerous instances (some of which we’ve documented here at Bearing Arms) where criminals saw an openly carried firearm as a target to be snatched. In most of these instances, they were successful. In the instances where the criminals failed, it was typically through their own ineptitude.


Numerous?

Just how many is that?
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby Brian D. » Thu Oct 13, 2016 4:24 pm

Darkness wrote:
Instead of deterrence, we’ve found numerous instances (some of which we’ve documented here at Bearing Arms) where criminals saw an openly carried firearm as a target to be snatched. In most of these instances, they were successful. In the instances where the criminals failed, it was typically through their own ineptitude.


Numerous?

Just how many is that?


Two, three, four maybe. Open Carry Dot Org forums has a sort of standing challenge looking for verifiable incidents like that. I've visited there for numerous (HA!) ten years and they have related two such OC gun snatches in that time, as memory serves.
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby M-Quigley » Fri Oct 14, 2016 11:05 am

Darkness wrote:
Instead of deterrence, we’ve found numerous instances (some of which we’ve documented here at Bearing Arms) where criminals saw an openly carried firearm as a target to be snatched. In most of these instances, they were successful. In the instances where the criminals failed, it was typically through their own ineptitude.


Numerous?

Just how many is that?


Decades ago a security guard at a company I worked for was walking around on a night shift, when someone came up behind him, struck him over the head, and took his handgun. The people at the contract told me that prior to this happening, the guy didn't appear to be taking the job seriously, not paying attention, bored, just wanted to put his time in. One of the comments was he was walking around "with his head up his ---" I don't think that this guy is a typical example of most open carriers however.

The last case of an OC gun theft that I read about was some guy who allegedly had half the gun stuck in a back pocket, the other half exposed, instead of being in a holster on a belt. Someone came up from behind him, snatched it out of the pocket and walked off. If true, I'd say ineptitude can go both ways.
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby curmudgeon3 » Fri Oct 14, 2016 6:13 pm

When open carrying, your gun is out there for everyone to see. So there's that.
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby Werz » Sat Oct 15, 2016 3:18 pm

Morne wrote:3 - His point about gun grabs only failing due to the BG's "ineptitude" is germane. Thing is, criminals have "ineptitude" in spades. I have friends who are prosecutors in several counties - you'd laugh until your sides split if you heard the tales of criminals TEXTING their plans to each other to commit a crime. No, really. Here in Ohio. They (usually) are THAT dumb. The "criminal mastermind" is a fiction created by the entertainment industry.

You forgot about the text messages afterward, bragging about what they did and what they did with the gun.
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby M-Quigley » Sat Oct 15, 2016 8:07 pm

Werz wrote:
Morne wrote:3 - His point about gun grabs only failing due to the BG's "ineptitude" is germane. Thing is, criminals have "ineptitude" in spades. I have friends who are prosecutors in several counties - you'd laugh until your sides split if you heard the tales of criminals TEXTING their plans to each other to commit a crime. No, really. Here in Ohio. They (usually) are THAT dumb. The "criminal mastermind" is a fiction created by the entertainment industry.

You forgot about the text messages afterward, bragging about what they did and what they did with the gun.


It's not just text messages. Do a search sometime on all the criminals who brag about and post pics and videos of themselves during or after the criminal activity.
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby Werz » Fri Oct 21, 2016 1:05 am

M-Quigley wrote:
Werz wrote:
Morne wrote:3 - His point about gun grabs only failing due to the BG's "ineptitude" is germane. Thing is, criminals have "ineptitude" in spades. I have friends who are prosecutors in several counties - you'd laugh until your sides split if you heard the tales of criminals TEXTING their plans to each other to commit a crime. No, really. Here in Ohio. They (usually) are THAT dumb. The "criminal mastermind" is a fiction created by the entertainment industry.

You forgot about the text messages afterward, bragging about what they did and what they did with the gun.

It's not just text messages. Do a search sometime on all the criminals who brag about and post pics and videos of themselves during or after the criminal activity.

I have plenty of those. And no, I'm not going to post any of them.
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby WY_Not » Fri Oct 21, 2016 7:12 am

Aww c'mon. We need something highly entertaining to start off the weekend. :twisted:
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Re: Open carry is bad

Postby OhioPaints » Fri Oct 21, 2016 10:40 pm

Darkness wrote:
Instead of deterrence, we’ve found numerous instances (some of which we’ve documented here at Bearing Arms) where criminals saw an openly carried firearm as a target to be snatched. In most of these instances, they were successful. In the instances where the criminals failed, it was typically through their own ineptitude.


Numerous?

Just how many is that?


And how many criminals saw an open carried gun and decided to seek easier hunting grounds? Oh, we generally don't know because the crime was avoided because of the open carry.
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