Cross-Post; Research Help Requested

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

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Cross-Post; Research Help Requested

Postby SeanC » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:33 pm

I originally posted in the National News section, but this might be more in up the alley of the open carry crowd. Any help you can offer would be greatly appreciated.

I'm doing some research for a presentation on civil liability of police officers for arresting/stopping/detaining open carriers. I've found exactly zero verdicts returned in favor of an open carrier on a civil suit alleging unlawful search / seizure by a police officer, police department, or municipality. I've been on Westlaw for the past hour without much success, and I've been on google for the last half-hour, also without success. (In my defense, if such a verdict exists, I've been on Westlaw for the better part of the last two weeks on this project, and I'm sort of running on fumes at this point.) I know that at some point in the history of open carry, someone has taken one of those cases to verdict, and there's got to be at least one verdict in favor of the open carrier. I turn to the gun fanatics of Ohioans for Concealed Carry: certainly some of you can direct me to a news story, or better yet a decision granting judgment, or better still a decision from a court of appeals affirming a verdict.

What I'm NOT looking for are reports of settlements. Those are a dime a dozen. I am also NOT looking for cases where someone has challenged the validity or invalidity of laws pertaining to open carry. I'm ONLY interested (for this project) in verdicts from civil suits.

I seem to recall a case, I think it was from Virginia, perhaps five or seven years ago, where a cop arrested a lady for open carry, and then arrested her again virtually immediately when she was released from jail, and then after the prosecutor dismissed the charges, the officer arrested her again on her way out of the courthouse. It was something very egregious, and if memory serves, she got a verdict around $50k. Anyone remember that? That, or any other verdict, you could point me to, would be very helpful.


I've ruled out the guy who sued Cleveland Heights (settled, no verdict), the guy who sued the City of Philadelphia (settled, no verdict) and the guy who sued in New Mexico, St. John (settled, no verdict). Again, lots of settlements, virtually no verdicts. Any suggestions?
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Re: Cross-Post; Research Help Requested

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:45 pm

Michael Porschien was stopped in Youngstown for open carry of a firearm, then arrested for concealed carry of a folding knife after an unlawful search.

The case was dismissed after the arresting Sergeant was caught lying under oath at the evidence suppression hearing.

Mr. P chose not to pursue the issue.

That's how most of these things go. Even if you COULD make a payday off such a case, most open carriers are NOT doing so just for a payday. If they were, I feel there would be far more of these cases, more going to settlements, increasing the odds of someone, somewhere, pushing the issue to trial.


Now, if you want a number with which to scare the civil servant sheep, you should consider Roy Call's lawsuit against Riverside, Ohio.

Yes, the case was settled, but the 'asking price' of the lawsuit was $3.6 million.

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/n ... aws/ngXKb/
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Re: Cross-Post; Research Help Requested

Postby JediSkipdogg » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:00 pm

Yes, the case was settled, but the 'asking price' of the lawsuit was $3.6 million.

http://www.mydaytondailynews.com/news/n ... aws/ngXKb/


Problem is one can ask anything. I'm currently in a civil lawsuit and while I won't publicly say my asking price, it's not pocket change. Will I get it? All up to how hard they want to play.
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Re: Cross-Post; Research Help Requested

Postby fisher » Mon Sep 19, 2016 9:29 pm

There was an open carrier who went by the name DANBUS on the open carry dot org site . Back n 2008-2009 he won a $15000 lawsuit against Tidewater Virgnia.
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Re: Cross-Post; Research Help Requested

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:09 pm

fisher wrote:There was an open carrier who went by the name DANBUS on the open carry dot org site . Back n 2008-2009 he won a $15000 lawsuit against Tidewater Virgnia.


That was a settlement and it was only $10,000. :cry:

Danbus, aka Danladi Moore, was truly a victim of police AND prosecutorial harassment.

He was harassed two or three times after that by the PD in Norfolk, the last case going to trial.

Turns out that the mall in which he was arrested was built with 100% public money, making it public property. With Virginia's preemption laws, he was allowed to carry.

If he ever filed a lawsuit for that last one, I didn't hear about it.
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Re: Cross-Post; Research Help Requested

Postby SeanC » Tue Sep 20, 2016 9:40 am

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
fisher wrote:There was an open carrier who went by the name DANBUS on the open carry dot org site . Back n 2008-2009 he won a $15000 lawsuit against Tidewater Virgnia.


That was a settlement and it was only $10,000. :cry:

Danbus, aka Danladi Moore, was truly a victim of police AND prosecutorial harassment.

He was harassed two or three times after that by the PD in Norfolk, the last case going to trial.

Turns out that the mall in which he was arrested was built with 100% public money, making it public property. With Virginia's preemption laws, he was allowed to carry.

If he ever filed a lawsuit for that last one, I didn't hear about it.



Ahhhh! That's the one I'm thinking of! Danladi Moore. It does look like those cases also resulted in settlement. So weird to think that of all the open carriers in the country, of all the police encounters (some of which are illegal), and even all the lawsuits, not one--not a single one in the whole country--has ever gone to a jury. Truly anomalous. Thanks for chiming in, folks. I'll post my research outline after my presentation in March.
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Re: Cross-Post; Research Help Requested

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Tue Sep 20, 2016 11:03 am

SeanC wrote:...So weird to think that of all the open carriers in the country, of all the police encounters (some of which are illegal), and even all the lawsuits, not one--not a single one in the whole country--has ever gone to a jury...


This one might...

https://www.aclu.org/blog/free-future/p ... es-against

"Police Accidentally Record Themselves Conspiring to Fabricate Criminal Charges Against Protester"
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Re: Cross-Post; Research Help Requested

Postby StiltzM109R » Wed Sep 21, 2016 12:44 pm

Lookup ViperGTS on the PAFOA board. He's the one that went after the city of Philly and won. He still open carries, educates people and police departments. His story is all over the web and under the Open Carry section of that board.
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Re: Cross-Post; Research Help Requested

Postby medmandan » Thu Sep 22, 2016 9:31 am

Northrup v. City of Toledo Police Department

Has not gone to trial YET...but already got cleared by 6th Circuit court of Appeals..
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