Carry with no round chambered.

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby TSiWRX » Fri Jul 29, 2016 8:27 pm

^ I'll go one further, my friend - that any law only affects those willing to abide by them.

Criminals are, by definition, criminals.
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby curmudgeon3 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:15 am

[quote=
"Obviously, it doesn't.

Well there you go. It's another gun law that only affects law-abiding citizens, and provides no amount of officer safety. Just like we are able to carry freely in our own homes without a license, we should be able to carry freely in our vehicles without a license.


I agree, but the last I heard, the OSHP/OGA wasn't on board.
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:20 am

Kenosis wrote:... The law does not afford me the choice but to make noise by racking the slide; and then only after exiting my car to retrieve the ammunition...


??

You can have your loaded magazines next to you if they are cased.

2923.16(K)(5)(a)(ii) Any magazine or speed loader that contains ammunition and that may be used with the firearm in question is stored in a compartment within the vehicle in question that cannot be accessed without leaving the vehicle or is stored in a container that provides complete and separate enclosure.
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby Kenosis » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:48 am

curmudgeon3 wrote:The OSHP has determined that unlicensed (unvetted) individuals inside a car with a loaded gun puts the lives of Patrolmen at risk of unknowns when enforcing laws at a traffic stop. I tend to agree.

I understand that patrolmen need to take measures to ensure their safety, but doesn't my safety matter too?

If I were a violent person the cop would have been told so upon running my plates before pulling me over. When I visited Ohio as a SD resident, I could carry loaded in my car. Now as an OH resident, I can't, even-though I still have all of my other carry permits, a clean history, the same gun, and even the same car. I also held a Secret security clearance for the duration of my enlistment in the Army, and have been fingerprinted and background-checked annually by SD state for foster care. I'm well "vetted" so this is not a matter of officer safety. This is a matter of red tape only.
Last edited by Kenosis on Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby Kenosis » Sat Jul 30, 2016 10:52 am

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
Kenosis wrote:... The law does not afford me the choice but to make noise by racking the slide; and then only after exiting my car to retrieve the ammunition...


??

You can have your loaded magazines next to you if they are cased.

2923.16(K)(5)(a)(ii) Any magazine or speed loader that contains ammunition and that may be used with the firearm in question is stored in a compartment within the vehicle in question that cannot be accessed without leaving the vehicle or is stored in a container that provides complete and separate enclosure.

I thank you for the correction. Does the container have to be locked? I could rack the slide before getting out of my car, and de-chamber upon re-entering, but that still leaves the danger of an ND from all the handling.
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Sat Jul 30, 2016 11:30 am

Kenosis wrote:... Does the container have to be locked? I could rack the slide before getting out of my car, and de-chamber upon re-entering, but that still leaves the danger of an ND from all the handling.


No, the container does not need to be locked if you are travelling within Ohio***.

2923.16(K)(5)(b) For the purposes of division (K)(5)(a)(ii) of this section, a "container that provides complete and separate enclosure" includes, but is not limited to, any of the following:

(i) A package, box, or case with multiple compartments, as long as the loaded magazine or speed loader and the firearm in question either are in separate compartments within the package, box, or case, or, if they are in the same compartment, the magazine or speed loader is contained within a separate enclosure in that compartment that does not contain the firearm and that closes using a snap, button, buckle, zipper, hook and loop closing mechanism, or other fastener that must be opened to access the contents or the firearm is contained within a separate enclosure of that nature in that compartment that does not contain the magazine or speed loader;

(ii) A pocket or other enclosure on the person of the person in question that closes using a snap, button, buckle, zipper, hook and loop closing mechanism, or other fastener that must be opened to access the contents.


You will still have to be outside of your car before racking your slide (because that would be a loaded firearm IN the vehicle), you just won't have to get your ammo from the trunk or other 'compartment than cannot be accessed without leaving the vehicle'.

For example, a small range bag with a zippered center section can hold your unloaded gun, while a velcro-closed outer pocket can hold your loaded magazine and stray cartridge. Then the bag can sit next to you in your vehicle.

As an open carrier, I've never (not since the 80's) bothered being 'discreet' when loading and unloading. It didn't make sense since I was just going to show everyone the gun on my hip.


*** If you travel to other states by car, check and follow the laws for each state you will travel to or through OR travel under the FOPA transportation law [18 USC 926(a)] which does require a locked container if you don't have an 'inaccessible compartment'.

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby JustaShooter » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:26 pm

Kenosis wrote:When I visited Ohio as a SD resident, I could carry loaded in my car. Now as an OH resident, I can't, even-though I still have all of my other carry permits,

You might have mentioned this before and I've just forgotten, but what "other carry permits" do you have? If any of them other than your SD license are still valid, have you checked to see if Ohio has a reciprocity agreement in place?
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby schmieg » Sat Jul 30, 2016 12:45 pm

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
*** If you travel to other states by car, check and follow the laws for each state you will travel to or through OR travel under the FOPA transportation law [18 USC 926(a)] which does require a locked container if you don't have an 'inaccessible compartment'.

Notwithstanding any other provision of any law or any rule or regulation of a State or any political subdivision thereof, any person who is not otherwise prohibited by this chapter from transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm shall be entitled to transport a firearm for any lawful purpose from any place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm to any other place where he may lawfully possess and carry such firearm if, during such transportation the firearm is unloaded, and neither the firearm nor any ammunition being transported is readily accessible or is directly accessible from the passenger compartment of such transporting vehicle: Provided, That in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment the firearm or ammunition shall be contained in a locked container other than the glove compartment or console.

When I traveled to Oregon in 2014, I just locked my guns in my suitcase and the ammo in my wife's. Oregon is similar to Ohio for most of the state, but Portland has the no loaded magazine or speed loader rule. I made good use of the hotel safe while staying there.
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby Kenosis » Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:27 pm

JustaShooter wrote:
Kenosis wrote:When I visited Ohio as a SD resident, I could carry loaded in my car. Now as an OH resident, I can't, even-though I still have all of my other carry permits,

You might have mentioned this before and I've just forgotten, but what "other carry permits" do you have? If any of them other than your SD license are still valid, have you checked to see if Ohio has a reciprocity agreement in place?

As I am no longer a SD resident, my SD permit is invalid. I also have a Utah non-resident permit, but I can't use it until I give Utah a copy of my resident permit from Ohio, which is in process.

Even-though I pass all these checks, I still cannot carry a loaded gun in my car in Ohio due to red tape.
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby curmudgeon3 » Sat Jul 30, 2016 1:31 pm

Kenosis wrote:
curmudgeon3 wrote:The OSHP has determined that unlicensed (unvetted) individuals inside a car with a loaded gun puts the lives of Patrolmen at risk of unknowns when enforcing laws at a traffic stop. I tend to agree.

I understand that patrolmen need to take measures to ensure their safety, but doesn't my safety matter too?

If I were a violent person the cop would have been told so upon running my plates before pulling me over. When I visited Ohio as a SD resident, I could carry loaded in my car. Now as an OH resident, I can't, even-though I still have all of my other carry permits, a clean history, the same gun, and even the same car. I also held a Secret security clearance for the duration of my enlistment in the Army, and have been fingerprinted and background-checked annually by SD state for foster care. I'm well "vetted" so this is not a matter of officer safety. This is a matter of red tape only.

I agree, but the last I heard, the OSHP/OGA wasn't on board.[/quote]
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby someguy » Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:28 pm

Having read this all the way through I'm not certain if you are carrying an unloaded gun in your car? I'd hate for you to get caught doing that before your license goes through.
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby Kenosis » Sat Jul 30, 2016 2:54 pm

someguy wrote:Having read this all the way through I'm not certain if you are carrying an unloaded gun in your car? I'd hate for you to get caught doing that before your license goes through.

It's my understanding that the gun must be unloaded.
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby JustaShooter » Sat Jul 30, 2016 5:19 pm

Kenosis wrote:
someguy wrote:Having read this all the way through I'm not certain if you are carrying an unloaded gun in your car? I'd hate for you to get caught doing that before your license goes through.

It's my understanding that the gun must be unloaded.

Unloaded (per Ohio's convoluted definition) and:
(1) In a closed package, box, or case;

(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;

(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose;


But (and Werz corrected me on this once in the past) it cannot be on your person, so (3) would not include having the unloaded handgun in a holster on your person even if it is in plain view.
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby Kenosis » Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:29 pm

JustaShooter wrote:
Kenosis wrote:
someguy wrote:Having read this all the way through I'm not certain if you are carrying an unloaded gun in your car? I'd hate for you to get caught doing that before your license goes through.

It's my understanding that the gun must be unloaded.

Unloaded (per Ohio's convoluted definition) and:
(1) In a closed package, box, or case;

(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;

(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose;


But (and Werz corrected me on this once in the past) it cannot be on your person, so (3) would not include having the unloaded handgun in a holster on your person even if it is in plain view.

Someguy put emphasis on the gun being unloaded, implying that I would not want to get caught carrying an unloaded gun while getting caught carrying a loaded gun would be fine. It's my understanding that Ohio law requires that I keep my gun unloaded, so I'm unclear on what someguy is trying to say.

You, however, are putting emphasis on the gun being carried. This is not what was being discussed. You are introducing a new angle. You are saying that I should keep my gun in a container and unloaded, while someguy is saying I should keep my gun loaded.

You and someguy are not talking about the same thing and so your comments are causing confusion.

My complaint: While I was a resident of SD on paper, I could carry however I wanted in Ohio. However, now that I have changed nothing other than the paperwork, all of a sudden various forms of carry which were previously perfectly safe, are now egregious dangers to the public.

This does not make any sense at all. I am still the same person. I still reside at the same address. I still carry the same gun. I still drive the same car. Non of this is consistent.
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Re: Carry with no round chambered.

Postby schmieg » Sat Aug 06, 2016 11:48 pm

Laws often do not make sense, especially when you are speaking of laws written to address issues with the general public and start comparing them to issues for specific individuals. If you don't like the law, get active with organizations that are attempting to change and improve them. Complaining here will just result in a bunch of people agreeing with you that it doesn't make sense in your case, but won't accomplish much else.
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