What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby BEAR! » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:38 am

So I wonder if there is dashcam footage from the pursuit vehicle? It seemed to be pointed in the direction of the guy that got shot.
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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby Werz » Fri Jan 29, 2016 1:16 am

CroManGun wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:...or another LaVoy Finicum.

Jury is still out on that one, there are too many competing narratives from too many involved parties.

Competing narratives might matter to the jury; don't think it matters too much to LaVoy.

JustaShooter wrote:True - but if he played a stupid game with the Feds, then he won a stupid prize. Either way, I hope the truth comes to light. I know if I were the Feds, I'd have had cameras on every asset, human or machine, that I could, and I would get that footage out - assuming it exonerates the agents/officers involved.

Oh, I think we'll see plenty of camera views. I think they are withholding it tactically, waiting for a lot of folks in the patriot movement to make asses of themselves with all sorts of speculation and accusations. As soon as the drone footage appeared, I saw someone post on Facebook that Finicum reached to his left side with his right hand, and that he could not have been reaching for a gun because he always carried his handgun in a holster on the right side. Then I read that there was a 9mm in one of those "concealed carry pockets" inside the left side of his jacket. I suspect they will continue to release those little "surprises" gradually, causing supporters to lose credibility with each new revelation.
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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby BobK » Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:14 am

Werz wrote:Oh, I think we'll see plenty of camera views.

Agreed. But I don't need a bunch of camera views to see that first his hands were in the air, then they were not in the air when he was shot. Not hard to see where this narrative is headed.
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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby Chuck » Fri Jan 29, 2016 6:14 am

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:...assuming it exonerates the agents/officers involved.


Well, without audio, it's hard to say...

Here is aerial footage of the shooting (jump to the 9 minute mark):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ



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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby charliej47 » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:39 am

Why is it that we can have Rosa Parks or Mahatma Gandhi who advocate change end up being successful and then you have the "occupy Wall street" or this group in Oregon who end accomplishing very little?
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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby JustaShooter » Fri Jan 29, 2016 7:44 am

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:...assuming it exonerates the agents/officers involved.


Well, without audio, it's hard to say...

Here is aerial footage of the shooting (jump to the 9 minute mark):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAGxDWKrjPQ

I agree - this particular video doesn't do much to clarify the situation. Audio would help, but depending on the distances involved it might portray an inaccurate sequence of events. Since sound travels slower than light, if the drone was far enough away it would tend to make it look like Finicum did go for a gun before the LEOs shot, when in fact it might not have been the case.
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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby mreising » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:46 am

At the risk of being flamed, I'll say the same thing I have said after the various LEO involved shootings of Michael Brown, et al: Finicum should not have tried to drive away after the stop and he should have complied at the time of the stop. Surprisingly,I believe the protesters that were still behind at the wildlife refuge were offered the option to leave without charges being filed. Regardless of your position on federal control over vast amounts of land in the West ( I think they have too much), the protesters violated existing law and could have been subject to arrest. I'm not sure this incident helps our cause and I think Werz has hit the nail on the head, there will be dribs and drabs of info released at just the "right" time to make the right look fools.
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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby ashtabula » Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:02 pm

There were four people in the white truck. Three of those people are alive today, one is not. From what I saw on the video, he has no one to blame but himself.
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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Fri Jan 29, 2016 2:48 pm

ashtabula wrote:... From what I saw on the video, ...


There's not enough there to make a judgment.

Remember the video of Tamir Rice being shot? The one from over the cops shoulder?

Looked like a bad shoot until the video from the left side of the scene was released and clearly showed Tamir pointing a "weapon" at the cop.


Just for discussion purposes, what will you think if a dashcam video...with audio...is released and we find out that LaVoy WAS actually shot while he had his hands in the air? I'm NOT saying that's what happened, it is just a popular speculation...but what if it's true?
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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby Chuck » Fri Jan 29, 2016 4:23 pm

I want to see that Tamir video you just talked about
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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Fri Jan 29, 2016 10:31 pm

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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby ashtabula » Sat Jan 30, 2016 6:37 am

When LaVoy fell to the ground, the time he was shot?, his hands had not been in the air for some time. I would like to know why he went from hands up, to digging in his coat. LaVoy set all these events in motion, made many bad decisions, resulting in his death. There are many examples of bad police shootings, I would not use this video as one of them.
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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby eye95 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:34 am

We don't have near enough information yet.

He was going for a gun? Really? With all those rifles pointed at him? Possibly.

I'll hold off judgment until we have closer camera footage and, we can only hope, some audio.

Things don't quite make sense yet, regardless of the direction in which one jumps to a conclusion.
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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby CroManGun » Sun Jan 31, 2016 4:15 am

ashtabula wrote:When LaVoy fell to the ground, the time he was shot?, his hands had not been in the air for some time. I would like to know why he went from hands up, to digging in his coat. LaVoy set all these events in motion, made many bad decisions, resulting in his death. There are many examples of bad police shootings, I would not use this video as one of them.

It has been reported that LaVoy made numerous statements indicating he would NOT go to prison. Perhaps he thought going out the way he did was more inline with his principles and beliefs of the cause he was involved in.
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Re: What part of 'infringed' don't you understand?

Postby Werz » Sun Jan 31, 2016 7:06 pm

CroManGun wrote:
ashtabula wrote:When LaVoy fell to the ground, the time he was shot?, his hands had not been in the air for some time. I would like to know why he went from hands up, to digging in his coat. LaVoy set all these events in motion, made many bad decisions, resulting in his death. There are many examples of bad police shootings, I would not use this video as one of them.

It has been reported that LaVoy made numerous statements indicating he would NOT go to prison. Perhaps he thought going out the way he did was more inline with his principles and beliefs of the cause he was involved in.

That's what I'm thinking. Not only did he make that statement about going to prison, but he also made a statement in an interview that, if somebody points a gun at him, he was going to point a gun a them. What he did not consider was a situation where [1] there was a warrant for his arrest (and he said in an interview that he believed such a warrant had been issued), [2] he fled from a traffic stop, and [3] he tried to evade a roadblock. Most folks understand that police officers are authorized to point guns at you under those circumstances.
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