Three points from firing

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Re: Three points from firing

Postby pirateguy191 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:18 pm

Werz wrote:
pirateguy191 wrote:
JohnZ wrote:A loaded magazine inside the car apart from the gun is still considered a loaded gun, right? And I assume it's the same thing if you have a holstered gun that's unloaded and a full mag in your pocket.

A loaded magazine is no longer a loaded gun. With your CHL, carry any way you please. Without a CHL, the magazine may be loaded but the empty gun and mag have to be in two separate closed containers.

It would be wise to specify that this applies to handguns only. Even if you have a CHL, a loaded magazine cannot be inserted into a long gun.


Well, I typed CHL twice. Concealed HANDGUN License.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby Werz » Mon Jan 25, 2016 4:29 am

eye95 wrote:
Brian D. wrote:As I recall the Founders ended up shooting the people in charge to change THEIR minds. Well, the armed flunkies of those in charge.

Yep. You start by working within the political system. However, when in the course of human events...


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Re: Three points from firing

Postby Werz » Tue Jan 26, 2016 7:04 pm

Werz wrote:
eye95 wrote:
Brian D. wrote:As I recall the Founders ended up shooting the people in charge to change THEIR minds. Well, the armed flunkies of those in charge.

Yep. You start by working within the political system. However, when in the course of human events...

Per TOS
"No abusive posts -- these include attacks against individuals, their opinions, their statements, or attacks against OFCC -- if you have a complaint against the way something is done or a decision that was stated, please raise it with a moderator. This rule is primarily for those controversial discussions where forum members tend to attack each other (what is commonly referred to as “flaming” or a “flame war). Such posts will not be tolerated once noticed by the moderators or once brought to our attention".....Djmac


Okey dokey. Let's review those terms of service:

Messages exhorting others to commit illegal acts or describing illegal acts you’ve committed or intend to commit are expressly forbidden.

'Nuff said.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby steves 50de » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:56 pm

Brian D. wrote:As I recall the Founders ended up shooting the people in charge to change THEIR minds. Well, the armed flunkies of those in charge.
:wink:
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:05 am

If my life were threatened, I would not hesitate to shoot the threat in the face.

That is an illegal act in the state of Ohio.

Illegal. All day. Every day. All night long.

We discuss such things all the time.

We have discussed these intentions and actual events, at length, ad nauseum.

We routinely encourage others to perform these illegal acts.

Of course, if we HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR DOING SO, we simply won't be charged and/or convicted.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:34 am

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:If my life were threatened, I would not hesitate to shoot the threat in the face.

That is an illegal act in the state of Ohio.

Illegal. All day. Every day. All night long.

That depends. If you were responsible for creating the incident, or you failed to meet a duty to retreat, then yes it would be illegal. Otherwise it's an act of legal self-defense.

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Of course, if we HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR DOING SO, we simply won't be charged and/or convicted.

No this badly mischaracterizes self-defense as an illegal act that isn't punished. That's very wrong. It is a legal justification for an act that in different circumstances would be illegal.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Wed Feb 10, 2016 1:05 pm

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:If my life were threatened, I would not hesitate to shoot the threat in the face.

That is an illegal act in the state of Ohio.

Illegal. All day. Every day. All night long.

That depends. If you were responsible for creating the incident, or you failed to meet a duty to retreat, then yes it would be illegal. Otherwise it's an act of legal self-defense.

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Of course, if we HAVE A GOOD REASON FOR DOING SO, we simply won't be charged and/or convicted.

No this badly mischaracterizes self-defense as an illegal act that isn't punished. That's very wrong. It is a legal justification for an act that in different circumstances would be illegal.


Welcome to Ohio.

There is NO such thing as "legal" self-defense in Ohio, only an affirmative defense...meaning YOU must prove your innocence.

This is NOT a mischaracterization.

This is exactly how it happens in this state.

When you shoot someone, for any reason, even self-defense, you have committed aggravated assault or worse.

You have NOT committed "self-defense".

You are guilty until proven innocent.

Yes, Ohio sucks that way.

And talking about crimes we intend to commit violates the TOS. :wink:
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Wed Feb 10, 2016 2:15 pm

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:There is NO such thing as "legal" self-defense in Ohio, only an affirmative defense...meaning YOU must prove your innocence.


People who prove their innocence are, by definition, not guilty of a crime.

Advising a person to take an action whereby they are not guilty under the laws as written, therefore, is not encouraging someone to commit an illegal act. This is substantially different than advising a person to take an action which is against the law but their odds of prosecution are low.

Your argument is like saying it's illegal for a person with a CHL to carry a concealed handgun, because they have to prove that their doing so isn't against the law. Carrying a concealed handgun is against the law. The law provides exceptions whereby doing so is allowed, which (again, by definition) makes it not against the law in those cases.

The fact that the self-defense exception is in a different statute vs. a different sub-section doesn't change the circular logic you're using.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby schmieg » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:10 pm

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:There is NO such thing as "legal" self-defense in Ohio, only an affirmative defense...meaning YOU must prove your innocence.


People who prove their innocence are, by definition, not guilty of a crime.

Advising a person to take an action whereby they are not guilty under the laws as written, therefore, is not encouraging someone to commit an illegal act. This is substantially different than advising a person to take an action which is against the law but their odds of prosecution are low.

Your argument is like saying it's illegal for a person with a CHL to carry a concealed handgun, because they have to prove that their doing so isn't against the law. Carrying a concealed handgun is against the law. The law provides exceptions whereby doing so is allowed, which (again, by definition) makes it not against the law in those cases.

The fact that the self-defense exception is in a different statute vs. a different sub-section doesn't change the circular logic you're using.

The point that MWSY is making is that in other states, the prosecutor has to prove that you shot the person in the face while not defending yourself from serious bodily harm or death. In Ohio, he just has to prove that you shot the person in the face (well, a bit more depending on the elements of the specific charges you face). You, then, have the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence, that the shoot was in self defense and you must prove all of the elements of self defense. Ohio is different from everywhere else in that regard.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Wed Feb 10, 2016 11:19 pm

Everywhere.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby eye95 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 7:53 am

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Everywhere.


If, by "Everywhere," you mean that all States put the burden of proof for self-defense on the defendant, I think you are wrong.

Didn't we learn in the Zimmerman case that, in Florida, the burden is placed very specifically and completely on the prosecution to prove it was NOT self-defense in order to convict?
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby Brian D. » Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:27 am

schmieg wrote:You, then, have the burden of proving by a preponderance of the evidence, that the shoot was in self defense and you must prove all of the elements of self defense. Ohio is different from everywhere else in that regard.


This quote from Schmieg is what MyWifeSaidYes was referring to when he stated "everywhere", I'm pretty sure. Sure enough to bet the house.

I am gonna do like Sonny Pruitt now and...read another thread.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby schmieg » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:09 am

eye95 wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Everywhere.


If, by "Everywhere," you mean that all States put the burden of proof for self-defense on the defendant, I think you are wrong.

Didn't we learn in the Zimmerman case that, in Florida, the burden is placed very specifically and completely on the prosecution to prove it was NOT self-defense in order to convict?

MWSY was referring to my saying Ohio differed from EVERYWHERE else, so he is correct.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby eye95 » Thu Feb 11, 2016 10:51 am

Ah.

Thank you for the clarification. I misunderstood.
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