Three points from firing

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

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Three points from firing

Postby JohnZ » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:10 pm

Hey guys, I have a buddy that insists that in order to open carry that the gun had to be "3 points from firing". Has anybody here ever heard of this? Maybe it was an old law or something but he's convinced. He recently told me that "I get my info from professionals and police officers not from forums. And an officer can and will f*!k you over hard if he wants to, the lack of actual laws associated doesn't work out in your favor."

I'm not sure if I'll ever convince him otherwise but input would be appreciated.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby Sevens » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:22 pm

Your friend will have to better explain exactly what he means. California once (perhaps still does...?) had an odd occurrence of laws that many dubbed "six seconds to safety" where the law allowed open carry of an unloaded handgun... so the mantra was to carry that unloaded handgun, a loaded magazine in a pocket and practice that speedy jockey under stress for personal defense. As far as I recall here in Ohio, we've never had any such thing.
JohnZ wrote:"I get my info from professionals and police officers not from forums. And an officer can and will f*!k you over hard if he wants to, the lack of actual laws associated doesn't work out in your favor."

I would suggest that roughly half of this makes him sound like a jackass and I certainly hope he learns from the select sample of police officers who learn and follow the minute details of the law that we do here as a hobby. Those officers absolutely exist (a handful of great ones active here on these pages) but the morass of those that don't may put a bit of a speed-bump in his routine.

I'd have little sympathy for him when that happens because as I hinted... your buddy sounds like a jackass. But then again, maybe you'd have to be there. Either way.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby JohnZ » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:31 pm

The best I can figure is it's one of those old wives tales that gets mindlessly parroted. I've challenged him a twelve pack and an apology if he can provide proof that this is really a thing lol, I'm interested to see what he says next.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby JustaShooter » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:31 pm

As you already appear to know, your friend is mistaken. Ohio law does not make openly carrying a firearm a crime, therefore it is legal. Ohio law also does not specify how one must carry openly, therefore any method of open carry is legal. The problem in proving that to him is, of course, the law doesn't speak to it so you don't have anything to show him...

However, consider the following from the Ohio Attorney General's Concealed Carry Laws pamphlet located at http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Law- ... -%28PDF%29

Open Carry
Ohio’s concealed carry laws do not regulate “open” carry of firearms. If you openly carry, use caution. The open carry of firearms is a legal activity in Ohio.


It also does not discuss any limits on open carry, and you would certainly expect it to if there were any.

Consider further, this Law Enforcement Bulletin from the AG website at http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Medi ... -v-City-of:

Search and Seizure (Open Carry): Northrup v. City of Toledo Police Department
6/19/2015
Question: If someone is openly carrying a firearm, can an officer conduct a Terry stop and frisk and disarm the person?

Quick Answer: No, open carry is legal in Ohio and simply carrying a weapon openly is not sufficient reasonable suspicion to justify a Terry stop and frisk.


There is more on that page worth reading, but perhaps the biggest takeaway is that if there were statutory restrictions on open carry, they would be mentioned and would likely provide justification for a stop.

And I would be remiss if I didn't include a link to our own OFCC Wiki on the topic: http://www.ohioccw.org/wiki/Ohio_Open_Carry

How is it legal to Open Carry in Ohio?

Ohio has no state statute or law prohibiting the open carry of any firearm, loaded or unloaded.

Prior to the enactment of R.C. 9.68 in 2007, municipalities within the state could each have their own firearms laws that may have criminalized open carry within their jurisdiction. This created the hazard of violating laws by simply traveling from city to city. R.C. 9.68 invalidates all local laws regarding ownership, possession, carrying and transport of firearms. This creates consistent laws throughout the state.

The reason Open Carry is lawful in Ohio is:

There is no statewide statute (law) that specifically prohibits the mere possession of a loaded firearm that is not concealed.
Since the adoption of "Statewide Preemption" (R.C. 9.68) local governments have been prohibited from enacting or enforcing almost all local gun laws or rules.
R.C. 9.68 includes in it's definition of carrying a firearm, the words "openly or concealed".
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:34 pm

I pretty much agree with Sevens but I'll try to give your buddy a little benefit of the doubt.

JohnZ wrote:Hey guys, I have a buddy that insists that in order to open carry that the gun had to be "3 points from firing". Has anybody here ever heard of this?


There are no laws in Ohio regulating Open Carry, aside from laws regulating guns in general. There is no statewide law specifying that a gun carried in public (whether openly or concealed) has to be carried any particular way. If there were a local law about this it would be invalid under state general law 9.68.

JohnZ wrote:He recently told me that "I get my info from professionals and police officers not from forums. And an officer can and will f*!k you over hard if he wants to, the lack of actual laws associated doesn't work out in your favor."


I kind of sympathize with him here, as there's a lot of bad info on the internet. Unfortunately there's a lot of bad info among police officers and other professionals too, and as I recently said in another thread, following bad info from a supposedly official source will NOT protect you from a felony charge. It's your responsibility to know the law. Police and other professionals can help with that, so can the internet. Thing is, you can't blindly rely on any of that because ultimately you following the law is on you, not someone else.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby JohnZ » Fri Jan 22, 2016 3:54 pm

Thanks a bunch guys. I know it's been a while since I've been active here but you guys haven't lost it a bit :D
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby Brian D. » Fri Jan 22, 2016 4:43 pm

I think maybe Utah had something along those lines on their books until fairly recently. It's gone now. Nothing like that ever existed statewide in Ohio, not in my lifetime of 53+ years anyhow. Wouldn't venture a guess as to whether some city/village had some such silly ordinance.

Maybe your friend is confusing the above two states because they both have four letters each, comprised of 2 vowels and 2 consonants? Buckeye state, Beehive state..hmm.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby JohnZ » Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:01 pm

Brian D. wrote:Maybe your friend is confusing the above two states because they both have four letters each, comprised of 2 vowels and 2 consonants? Buckeye state, Beehive state..hmm.


^ Awesome


Now he's arguing what the definition of a loaded firearm is :roll:
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby Brian D. » Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:05 pm

Legislature clarified that a few years ago, it's no longer weird or vague. In other words, they guy can have his own opinion, not his own facts.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby JohnZ » Fri Jan 22, 2016 5:08 pm

A loaded magazine inside the car apart from the gun is still considered a loaded gun, right? And I assume it's the same thing if you have a holstered gun that's unloaded and a full mag in your pocket.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby pirateguy191 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:29 pm

JohnZ wrote:A loaded magazine inside the car apart from the gun is still considered a loaded gun, right? And I assume it's the same thing if you have a holstered gun that's unloaded and a full mag in your pocket.


A loaded magazine is no longer a loaded gun. With your CHL, carry any way you please. Without a CHL, the magazine may be loaded but the empty gun and mag have to be in two separate closed containers.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby eye95 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:39 pm

If someone makes a pronouncement about what the law says, ask him for a citation. If he cannot provide it, move on. He is mindlessly parroting what he has heard from another improperly informed source.

Police officers are a remarkably lousy source of information about the law. Some are ignorant. Some just lie.

One of the guys selling firearms for me was a retired cop. He constantly told customers that firearms in a vehicle had to be x steps from firing when the driver/carrier was not licensed. x seemed to vary day-by-day. I would just hand the customer a sheet with ORC code sections listed, telling them to read the law for themselves and not to take anyone else's word for what it says.

I know of no section of Ohio law that speaks to some number of steps from firing, and I made it a point to read every word of firearms law in Ohio upon moving here.

The cop who worked for me clearly had not read the law and was probably repeating some cop-myth he was taught early on in his career.

Hey cops! Read the law. I did. It ain't that hard!
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby JohnZ » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:02 pm

pirateguy191 wrote:
JohnZ wrote:A loaded magazine inside the car apart from the gun is still considered a loaded gun, right? And I assume it's the same thing if you have a holstered gun that's unloaded and a full mag in your pocket.


A loaded magazine is no longer a loaded gun. With your CHL, carry any way you please. Without a CHL, the magazine may be loaded but the empty gun and mag have to be in two separate closed containers.



When did that change?
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby eye95 » Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:09 pm

IIRC, about two years ago.
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Re: Three points from firing

Postby JustaShooter » Fri Jan 22, 2016 9:13 pm

JohnZ wrote:
pirateguy191 wrote:
JohnZ wrote:A loaded magazine inside the car apart from the gun is still considered a loaded gun, right? And I assume it's the same thing if you have a holstered gun that's unloaded and a full mag in your pocket.


A loaded magazine is no longer a loaded gun. With your CHL, carry any way you please. Without a CHL, the magazine may be loaded but the empty gun and mag have to be in two separate closed containers.



When did that change?

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