OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

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OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Wed Jul 01, 2015 12:09 am

http://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Medi ... -v-City-of

Search and Seizure (Open Carry): Northrup v. City of Toledo Police Department

6/19/2015

Question: If someone is openly carrying a firearm, can an officer conduct a Terry stop and frisk and disarm the person?

Quick Answer: No, open carry is legal in Ohio and simply carrying a weapon openly is not sufficient reasonable suspicion to justify a Terry stop and frisk.


... Because Northrup’s Fourth Amendment right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures was violated, the Court allowed Northrup’s lawsuit to proceed. ...
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Re: OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Postby BobK » Wed Jul 01, 2015 6:02 am

There has been a lot of discussion about this very issue in Texas with people anticipating Open Carry becoming legal on 01/01/2016, and anticipating what the typical police response will be.

Of course, the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals does not cover Texas (we are in the 5th Circuit), and licensed open carry may still allow a Terry stop of open carriers since the act is illegal unless licensed.

However, I fully intend to open carry and if unduly inconvenienced by police will pursue proper resolution. I'll start with complaints and seeking re-training, but lawsuits are not off the table.
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Re: OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Postby WY_Not » Wed Jul 01, 2015 7:03 am

Day is just getting started and already two pieces of good news.
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Re: OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Postby schmieg » Wed Jul 01, 2015 9:57 pm

BobK wrote:There has been a lot of discussion about this very issue in Texas with people anticipating Open Carry becoming legal on 01/01/2016, and anticipating what the typical police response will be.

Of course, the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals does not cover Texas (we are in the 5th Circuit), and licensed open carry may still allow a Terry stop of open carriers since the act is illegal unless licensed.

However, I fully intend to open carry and if unduly inconvenienced by police will pursue proper resolution. I'll start with complaints and seeking re-training, but lawsuits are not off the table.

Do they randomly stop cars to see if the driver is licensed?
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Re: OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Postby BobK » Wed Jul 01, 2015 10:45 pm

schmieg wrote:Do they randomly stop cars to see if the driver is licensed?

That is certainly one of the strong arguments being discussed.
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Re: OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Postby 3FULLMAGS+1 » Sat Jul 04, 2015 11:28 am

schmieg wrote......."Do they randomly stop cars to see if the driver is licensed?"

Well may not be the same thing here , but do they stop CCer's? to see if they are licensed to do so down there since CC is legal w/ a lic? Who knows , someone "may" be "CCing" without a lic. too! Why ya just don't know who could be conceal'in w / out that thar lic....ya know..... lol !!!
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Re: OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Postby cjah09 » Wed Jul 08, 2015 11:11 pm

simply carrying a weapon openly is not sufficient reasonable suspicion to justify a Terry stop and frisk


Although it is legal to open carry in Ohio, and carrying a gun is not reason enough to search... Complaints from the general public do warrant the police to investigate. Most officers will simply ask a few questions and move on. But, as seen on youtube, individuals can create issues by having an attitude or refusing to cooperate with law enforcement. There are many many videos on youtube of individuals "exercising their right" to open carry. These individuals are looking for a response from the public and police. Once someone open carrying causes a scene, they create the "reasonable suspicion" for LEO to investigate.
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Re: OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Postby tbrew85 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 12:12 am

cjah09 wrote:
simply carrying a weapon openly is not sufficient reasonable suspicion to justify a Terry stop and frisk


Although it is legal to open carry in Ohio, and carrying a gun is not reason enough to search... Complaints from the general public do warrant the police to investigate. Most officers will simply ask a few questions and move on. But, as seen on youtube, individuals can create issues by having an attitude or refusing to cooperate with law enforcement. There are many many videos on youtube of individuals "exercising their right" to open carry. These individuals are looking for a response from the public and police. Once someone open carrying causes a scene, they create the "reasonable suspicion" for LEO to investigate.



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Re: OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Thu Jul 09, 2015 4:49 am

cjah09 wrote:Although it is legal to open carry in Ohio, and carrying a gun is not reason enough to search... Complaints from the general public do warrant the police to investigate.


All true. It is the level of the "investigation" that becomes an issue.

cjah09 wrote:Most officers will simply ask a few questions and move on.


The police are certainly free to ask questions, but in Ohio, unless they suspect a citizen of a crime, the citizen has no duty to answer any questions. If they see the open carrier NOT committing any crimes, they are free to move on without asking any questions.

cjah09 wrote: But, as seen on youtube, individuals can create issues by having an attitude or refusing to cooperate with law enforcement.


Again, if I'm not doing anything wrong, why should I be bothered by law enforcement?

cjah09 wrote:There are many many videos on youtube of individuals "exercising their right" to open carry.


Yeah. So?

cjah09 wrote:These individuals are looking for a response from the public and police.


Sadly, this is true. Some of these folks are a-holes solely looking for a confrontation.

cjah09 wrote:Once someone open carrying causes a scene, they create the "reasonable suspicion" for LEO to investigate.


Not if it was the LEO that started the confrontation. And yes, the LEO stopping an open carrier IS starting a confrontation.
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Re: OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Postby cjah09 » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:14 am

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
cjah09 wrote:Although it is legal to open carry in Ohio, and carrying a gun is not reason enough to search... Complaints from the general public do warrant the police to investigate.


All true. It is the level of the "investigation" that becomes an issue.

cjah09 wrote:Most officers will simply ask a few questions and move on.


The police are certainly free to ask questions, but in Ohio, unless they suspect a citizen of a crime, the citizen has no duty to answer any questions. If they see the open carrier NOT committing any crimes, they are free to move on without asking any questions.

cjah09 wrote: But, as seen on youtube, individuals can create issues by having an attitude or refusing to cooperate with law enforcement.


Again, if I'm not doing anything wrong, why should I be bothered by law enforcement?

cjah09 wrote:There are many many videos on youtube of individuals "exercising their right" to open carry.


Yeah. So?

cjah09 wrote:These individuals are looking for a response from the public and police.


Sadly, this is true. Some of these folks are a-holes solely looking for a confrontation.

cjah09 wrote:Once someone open carrying causes a scene, they create the "reasonable suspicion" for LEO to investigate.


Not if it was the LEO that started the confrontation. And yes, the LEO stopping an open carrier IS starting a confrontation.



All true. I think individuals on both sides can take things too far. Some LEOs overstep the boundaries and some citizens are looking for a response. I didn't mean to make it sound as if I think LEOs can do whatever they want.
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Re: OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Postby JediSkipdogg » Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:43 am

cjah09 wrote:All true. I think individuals on both sides can take things too far. Some LEOs overstep the boundaries and some citizens are looking for a response. I didn't mean to make it sound as if I think LEOs can do whatever they want.


And in some cases they do, and they do so with mainly the 1st and 2nd Amendment. This past weekend the city I work for had our annual fireworks celebration. 130,000 people attended and so did a group of about 10 radical church goers that went around with a speaker about being saved, repenting, stop drinking, etc. It's their right to do so, but they ruined the enjoyment of 129,990 people. Our phones were off the hook with complaints and nothing we could do.

Both sides like to push the envelope. And I hate to say it, we aren't 1950 anymore and pushing the envelope generally does not get change accomplished.
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Re: OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Postby Brian D. » Thu Jul 09, 2015 9:32 am

Jedi, to put the "glass half full" spin on your story, consider that these folks who showed up to protest at least picked a city that runs a big successful holiday event. You should be proud! :wink: Way more captive audience to preach at than any July 4 shindig held within ten miles of MY town. In fact, my town had no event, first time in many years.
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Re: OAG Law Enforcement Bulletin on Open Carry

Postby Kenosis » Sun Jul 03, 2016 9:08 pm

BobK wrote:There has been a lot of discussion about this very issue in Texas with people anticipating Open Carry becoming legal on 01/01/2016, and anticipating what the typical police response will be.

Of course, the 6th Circuit Court of Appeals does not cover Texas (we are in the 5th Circuit), and licensed open carry may still allow a Terry stop of open carriers since the act is illegal unless licensed.

However, I fully intend to open carry and if unduly inconvenienced by police will pursue proper resolution. I'll start with complaints and seeking re-training, but lawsuits are not off the table.

Here's another one of those retched gun/car comparisons....

Driving is illegal unless licensed, but police can't stop you just to see if you're licensed. I think what makes this a valid comparison is that driving is not a right, yet police cannot stop you, so even more liberty should be offered to an act which IS a right.
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