Thought you would like this...

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

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Thought you would like this...

Postby ApexShootingTactics » Tue May 05, 2015 8:36 pm

My wife is a LE Sgt in charge of a patrol shift and she came home for lunch while on duty. While she was home a call came out for an officer to respond to a local retail store because there was a man with a holstered gun in the store. My wife quickly interrupted and asked dispatch if there was any problems or are they just calling because he has a gun. Dispatch advised "It isn't normal for customers to come in with an open carry and that is why they called". My wife advised for dispatch that no officer was needed unless the original caller thinks something is criminal.

LE get these calls all the time and our response depends a lot on what the caller says, what the dispatcher asks and who is in charge. There are supervisors out there who believe we need to respond to EVERY call, then there are others who apply common sense. Trust me, when I was a young rookie an OIC made me go to a complaint about a neighbors leaves blowing into a yard after the complaint just raked his yard clean. :roll:

Anyways, thought you would like to hear about this "incident".
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby BobK » Tue May 05, 2015 10:31 pm

Big thumbs up!

There is a lot of discussion on the Texas forums about officer response to MWAG calls after open carry passes. I'll use this anecdote as an example of how experienced and aware LEO's are able to make distinctions based on circumstances.
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby WY_Not » Wed May 06, 2015 7:18 am

Whoohoo! That is how it should be handled. If the person with the firearm isn't doing anything illegal or even suspicious there is NO reason to respond.
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby ApexShootingTactics » Wed May 06, 2015 9:14 am

WY_Not wrote:Whoohoo! That is how it should be handled. If the person with the firearm isn't doing anything illegal or even suspicious there is NO reason to respond.


True but the reality is...
There should be no response if the caller/complaint tells dispatch an accurate account of the scene and that scene being non-criminal in nature. The problem is calls like these are done under stress. The call in the original post came on 911 and the employee sounded scared.

There should be no response if dispatch asks the right questions and finds out there is nothing criminal. But... Some agencies only have one dispatcher or they are swamped when the call comes in and can not ask the appropriate questions. The act for the greater good and send an officer(s). The stress level in dispatch can go through the roof when the phones are ringing off the hook and one or more calls are truly life threatening. They do their best and are often criticized for making decisions.

There should be no response if the shift Sgt/OIC catches the call and determines there is nothing criminal. Though they maybe at another call, or in the restroom or who knows but like dispatchers there are a limit number of Sgts and OICs.

There should be no response if nothing is criminal but in some instances it is better to respond and investigate than assume all is well.

There should be no response if nothing is criminal but some LEO don't know any better but the word is getting out.

Given all that, remember we don't live in a perfect world and 99.9% of LEOs just want to do a good job and go home at the end of the shift.

This rant stems from a rather negative and inflammatory email I received concerning this post. I urge the sender to post his thoughts, I doubt you will be supported.
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby WY_Not » Wed May 06, 2015 9:23 am

Yep. A matter of getting people trained to ask the right questions. Dispatching an officer to deal with a legal carrier because of some nervous nelly is an officer that is now unavailable to deal with a real crime or life threatening situation.

Should an officer be sent if someone calls in that someone is driving down the street? If they aren't driving recklessly, erratically, speeding, etc? No one will argue that vehicles can be just as dangerous and deadly as a firearm. Yet, unless a driver is doing something that is or might be illegal they can't be stopped on a whim. Firearms should be no different.
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby Werz » Wed May 06, 2015 10:01 am

ApexShootingTactics wrote:This rant stems from a rather negative and inflammatory email I received concerning this post. I urge the sender to post his thoughts, I doubt you will be supported.

It is easy for people to criticize when they lack understanding of the process involved. Just understand that no amount of explanation will persuade a person whose beliefs are chiseled in stone. That's why the voir dire process exists.
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Wed May 06, 2015 4:06 pm

ApexShootingTactics wrote:...
This rant stems from a rather negative and inflammatory email I received concerning this post. I urge the sender to post his thoughts, I doubt you will be supported.


Feel free to post quotes from this person's email.

We don't need to know who it is, but we would love to hear their point of view.
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby Metal1 » Tue Jul 14, 2015 11:15 am

More emphasis for training Dispatchers is needed. That way the call never goes out to Patrol about a MWAG. If Dispatch would just ask the caller if the person is not breaking any laws and advising them that it is completely legal we would not be having these discussions as much.
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby ApexShootingTactics » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:24 pm

Metal1 wrote:More emphasis for training Dispatchers is needed. That way the call never goes out to Patrol about a MWAG. If Dispatch would just ask the caller if the person is not breaking any laws and advising them that it is completely legal we would not be having these discussions as much.


Metal,
It isn't that easy. I agree that dispatchers need to ask more detailed questions but determining if something is legal or not can not always be made over the phone. A lot of this has to do with what the caller observes, their ability to give detailed information to dispatch and in the end our dispatchers are not trained in the law. They are trained to dispatch calls and officers and the OIC/Sgt can make those calls if an officer should or shouldn't respond. Most of the time an officer will be dispatched under the CYA rule.
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby WY_Not » Tue Jul 14, 2015 1:40 pm

But it should be that easy. If a person is walking down the street with a holstered firearm, minding their own business, there should be no dispatch. If they are waving it around or pointing it at people or obviously underage or acting dangerously or suspiciously, absolutely dispatch a LEO.

If I call in and say someone is driving down the street, is a LEO going to get dispatched to check them out if they aren't driving erratically or doing something dangerous or suspicious? No. It is a legal activity.

Both are legal activities. It is insulting and it runs in the same vein as getting pulled over for driving while black. Unless a person is doing something dangerous or acting erratic or behaving suspiciously, they should be left he heck alone. A person should not have to justify their legal activity because some ninny living in fear of their own shadow.
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby Werz » Tue Jul 14, 2015 4:46 pm

WY_Not wrote:A person should not have to justify their legal activity because some ninny living in fear of their own shadow.

But, once again, it is a matter of what information is conveyed and what words are used to convey it.
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby Sevens » Tue Jul 14, 2015 5:10 pm

If there are not pressing other issues for the responding LE (let's be realistic... depending on where, there can be a HEAP of important activity or a pile of down time) then I believe that the BEST response is for LE to respond and take the statement fully and very clearly explain to the complainant exactly what the law has to say on the issue.

He doesn't have to be condescending but it may (hopefully?) do the necessary job of preventing these calls in the future.

They are employed to respond and to serve, and it would be helpful if these ninnies were told, face to face, that they have no legal stand for such calls.
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby Mr. Glock » Tue Jul 14, 2015 9:50 pm

I don't know the first thing about being a dispatcher..like 99.9% of folks on this forum.

But I can guess.

I like my job, lots to do, good benefits. A call comes in from an 18 year old girl at a local suburban retail store. MWAG. I have two choices. I can attempt, over the phone, with a semi-literate retail worker, try to determine the nature of the situation (ending up on the news if I choose wrong). Or, I can send an LEO to check it out, at no risk to my job or anything else.

Easy choice, that.
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby Werz » Tue Jul 14, 2015 10:36 pm

Mr. Glock wrote:I don't know the first thing about being a dispatcher..like 99.9% of folks on this forum.

But I can guess.

I like my job, lots to do, good benefits. A call comes in from an 18 year old girl at a local suburban retail store. MWAG. I have two choices. I can attempt, over the phone, with a semi-literate retail worker, try to determine the nature of the situation (ending up on the news if I choose wrong). Or, I can send an LEO to check it out, at no risk to my job or anything else.

Easy choice, that.

I think you have captured that quite nicely. Next come the road officers who are too busy on another call.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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Re: Thought you would like this...

Postby Fyrfightr » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:49 pm

Werz wrote:
Mr. Glock wrote:I don't know the first thing about being a dispatcher..like 99.9% of folks on this forum.

But I can guess.

I like my job, lots to do, good benefits. A call comes in from an 18 year old girl at a local suburban retail store. MWAG. I have two choices. I can attempt, over the phone, with a semi-literate retail worker, try to determine the nature of the situation (ending up on the news if I choose wrong). Or, I can send an LEO to check it out, at no risk to my job or anything else.

Easy choice, that.

I think you have captured that quite nicely. Next come the road officers who are too busy on another call.



Add to that when 3 other 911 lines are ringing.
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