"Open" carrying in a vehicle
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"Open" carrying in a vehicle
Hey guys, I'm turning 21 at the end of the month, and I'll be purchasing my new EDC the morning of my birthday. If I had it my way, I'd have my CHL class the same day but because of finals here at Ohio State I'll most likely have to wait until early May. Anyway, I told you that to tell you this; while I'm waiting for my CHL I'll likely be open carrying just about everywhere I go other than campus. Now I'm not a huge fan of OC, I'd much rather nobody know my business. However, I'd also rather be armed than defenseless but I don't have much of an option until my CHL comes through. My question is regarding transportation of my firearm without a CHL. Here is the law:
(A) No person shall knowingly discharge a firearm while in or on a motor vehicle.
(B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.
(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless the person may lawfully possess that firearm under applicable law of this state or the United States, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:
(1) In a closed package, box, or case;
(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;
(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose;
Maybe it's a stretch, but couldn't a holster be considered "a rack or holder made for the purpose"? If so, that would mean I could holster my unloaded firearm in plain sight and keep my mags in an easily accessible container? At the very least I'm inclined to think that I would be legal if I found a way to attach a serpa to my steering column and store it that way. What do you guys think? Can I legally holster my firearm in my truck as long as it's not loaded?
(A) No person shall knowingly discharge a firearm while in or on a motor vehicle.
(B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.
(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless the person may lawfully possess that firearm under applicable law of this state or the United States, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:
(1) In a closed package, box, or case;
(2) In a compartment that can be reached only by leaving the vehicle;
(3) In plain sight and secured in a rack or holder made for the purpose;
Maybe it's a stretch, but couldn't a holster be considered "a rack or holder made for the purpose"? If so, that would mean I could holster my unloaded firearm in plain sight and keep my mags in an easily accessible container? At the very least I'm inclined to think that I would be legal if I found a way to attach a serpa to my steering column and store it that way. What do you guys think? Can I legally holster my firearm in my truck as long as it's not loaded?
"The unarmed man is not just defenseless; he is also contemptible." -- Machiavellli
"Beware the fury of a patient man." -- John Dryden
"Beware the fury of a patient man." -- John Dryden
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
Do you want to be the "test case" for your assertion that the holster in plain view is acceptable. Opinions might vary depending on where you are and who is asking. I would figure the best bet is to hold your horses, get your CHL, and don't let your eagerness to begin to carry get you into trouble that could jeopardize your long-term ability to have the CHL.
- TJW815
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
In Ohio, open carry becomes concealed carry the moment you get into or onto a motor vehicle. I know before I got my CHL you couldn't have a loaded mag in your vehicle less it be considered a loaded firearm.
One of the resident experts will be around to enlighten you further.
One of the resident experts will be around to enlighten you further.
- pirateguy191
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
You can now have loaded mags without a CHL but the mags and gun must be stored in separate closed containers.
No ammo is allowed to be in the gun without a CHL.
No ammo is allowed to be in the gun without a CHL.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
- pirateguy191
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
varro, we have several quality instructors in your area. I'm sure one of them will be glad to get you in a class when you are ready.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh
NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
- cashman966
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
TJW815 wrote:In Ohio, open carry becomes concealed carry the moment you get into or onto a motor vehicle. I know before I got my CHL you couldn't have a loaded mag in your vehicle less it be considered a loaded firearm.
One of the resident experts will be around to enlighten you further.
This is not a true statement. a firearm would need to meet several conditions to be considered concealed in a car. The main one being that it has to be on the actor's person. I would think the majority of charges for an unloaded firearm in a car would fall under 2923.16, Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle. Which the OP quoted.
2923.12 Carrying concealed weapons.
(A) No person shall knowingly carry or have, concealed on the person's person or concealed ready at hand, any of the following:
(1) A deadly weapon other than a handgun;
(2) A handgun other than a dangerous ordnance;
(C)
(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(c) A person's transportation or storage of a firearm, other than a firearm described in divisions (G) to (M) of section 2923.11 of the Revised Code, in a motor vehicle for any lawful purpose if the firearm is not on the actor's person;
As to what is plain sight Werz give a solid example in this similar thread. http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=73522" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My guess is a holster secured to the steering column would not meet the definition of plain sight. In the trunk no problem.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.
Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit
IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit
IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
- TJW815
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
So if I'm carrying a weapon on my hip without a CHL, and sit down in/on my vehicle, it's not concealed weapon at that point?cashman966 wrote:TJW815 wrote:In Ohio, open carry becomes concealed carry the moment you get into or onto a motor vehicle. I know before I got my CHL you couldn't have a loaded mag in your vehicle less it be considered a loaded firearm.
One of the resident experts will be around to enlighten you further.
This is not a true statement. a firearm would need to meet several conditions to be considered concealed in a car. The main one being that it has to be on the actor's person. I would think the majority of charges for an unloaded firearm in a car would fall under 2923.16, Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle. Which the OP quoted.
2923.12 Carrying concealed weapons.
(A) No person shall knowingly carry or have, concealed on the person's person or concealed ready at hand, any of the following:
(1) A deadly weapon other than a handgun;
(2) A handgun other than a dangerous ordnance;
(C)
(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(c) A person's transportation or storage of a firearm, other than a firearm described in divisions (G) to (M) of section 2923.11 of the Revised Code, in a motor vehicle for any lawful purpose if the firearm is not on the actor's person;
As to what is plain sight Werz give a solid example in this similar thread. http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=73522" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My guess is a holster secured to the steering column would not meet the definition of plain sight. In the trunk no problem.
- cashman966
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
TJW815 wrote:So if I'm carrying a weapon on my hip without a CHL, and sit down in/on my vehicle, it's not concealed weapon at that point?cashman966 wrote:TJW815 wrote:In Ohio, open carry becomes concealed carry the moment you get into or onto a motor vehicle. I know before I got my CHL you couldn't have a loaded mag in your vehicle less it be considered a loaded firearm.
One of the resident experts will be around to enlighten you further.
This is not a true statement. a firearm would need to meet several conditions to be considered concealed in a car. The main one being that it has to be on the actor's person. I would think the majority of charges for an unloaded firearm in a car would fall under 2923.16, Improperly handling firearms in a motor vehicle. Which the OP quoted.
2923.12 Carrying concealed weapons.
(A) No person shall knowingly carry or have, concealed on the person's person or concealed ready at hand, any of the following:
(1) A deadly weapon other than a handgun;
(2) A handgun other than a dangerous ordnance;
(C)
(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:
(c) A person's transportation or storage of a firearm, other than a firearm described in divisions (G) to (M) of section 2923.11 of the Revised Code, in a motor vehicle for any lawful purpose if the firearm is not on the actor's person;
As to what is plain sight Werz give a solid example in this similar thread. http://ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=73522" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
My guess is a holster secured to the steering column would not meet the definition of plain sight. In the trunk no problem.
If it is not readily visible then it certainly could, and probably would, result is a concealed weapons charge. I guess you missed the part where I said that a firearm (loaded status unspecified) on an actors person IS THE main condition that would have to be met to be considered concealed. If you have the firearm on your person it DOES NOT meet the exemption from a concealed carry charge enumerated in 2923.16(C)(c)
My reference to charges for unloaded firearms was made because I would assume that someone with a loaded firearm in a car would most likely have it on their person which would probably result is a CCW charge and I guess a second charge under improper handling as well.
Ignorant or Stupid, I'm not sure which is worse. If someone were stupid, at least they'd have an excuse for all the dumb things they say.
Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit
IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
Pass the Peace Pipe I need another hit
IANAL and neither are most people on this board, its just shows more with some than others.
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
Thank you for the input guys. So if I wanted to legally transport the firearm somewhere to open carry, I would most likely store the unloaded gun in a separate container than the mags. And upon arrival, correct me if I'm wrong, I would technically be required to load and holster the weapon outside of the truck? Seems to me that would be a good way to earn a MWAG call. I drive a pickup by the way, so trunk isn't an option.
"The unarmed man is not just defenseless; he is also contemptible." -- Machiavellli
"Beware the fury of a patient man." -- John Dryden
"Beware the fury of a patient man." -- John Dryden
- djthomas
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
I don't have the case law handy but there is some judicial guidance concerning the "rack or holder" exception. Frankly nothing short of the traditional Bubba Gun Rack in the window of the pickup is going to fly - especially in an urban area.
- BobK
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
Both points are correct.varro wrote:Thank you for the input guys. So if I wanted to legally transport the firearm somewhere to open carry, I would most likely store the unloaded gun in a separate container than the mags. And upon arrival, correct me if I'm wrong, I would technically be required to load and holster the weapon outside of the truck? Seems to me that would be a good way to earn a MWAG call. I drive a pickup by the way, so trunk isn't an option.
I am a: NRA Life Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Texas Firearms Coalition Gold member, OFCC Patron Member, former JFPO member (pre-SAF).
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
More Obamination. Idiots. Can't we find an electable (R) for 2016?
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
More Obamination. Idiots. Can't we find an electable (R) for 2016?
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
Many people seem to think that having a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle automatically makes it concealed and thus requires a CHL. As others have noted above, what actually happens when you are in the vehicle with a loaded firearm is that you are committing the offense of improper handling of a firearm in a motor vehicle, and an exception to that offense is if it is a handgun and you have a CHL. You need the Ohio License to Carry a Concealed Handgun if you want to have a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle, not because it is concealed but because you are in a motor vehicle. Of course most of us just use the simpler explanation that we need to have a CHL because the handgun "becomes concealed" when we are in the vehicle because it takes fewer words.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny
Mark
NRA Training Counselor-Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Reloading, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home, Home Firearms Safety, Chief RSO. NRA Endowment Life member.
Mark
NRA Training Counselor-Rifle, Pistol, Shotgun, Reloading, Personal Protection in the Home, Personal Protection Outside the Home, Home Firearms Safety, Chief RSO. NRA Endowment Life member.
- Werz
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
Exactly. However, it would be prudent to add that you can be charged with F4 Carrying Concealed Weapons if do not have a CHL and the handgun is on your person. Also, if you do not have a CHL, you can be charged with M1 Carrying Concealed Weapons if the handgun is on your person, even if it is unloaded, and the magazine is in locked in the glove compartment.mreising wrote:Many people seem to think that having a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle automatically makes it concealed and thus requires a CHL. As others have noted above, what actually happens when you are in the vehicle with a loaded firearm is that you are committing the offense of improper handling of a firearm in a motor vehicle, and an exception to that offense is if it is a handgun and you have a CHL. You need the Ohio License to Carry a Concealed Handgun if you want to have a loaded handgun in a motor vehicle, not because it is concealed but because you are in a motor vehicle. Of course most of us just use the simpler explanation that we need to have a CHL because the handgun "becomes concealed" when we are in the vehicle because it takes fewer words.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
- MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
It's happened. You may be interested in reading the adventures of techguy85: http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=79513" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;varro wrote:Thank you for the input guys. So if I wanted to legally transport the firearm somewhere to open carry, I would most likely store the unloaded gun in a separate container than the mags. And upon arrival, correct me if I'm wrong, I would technically be required to load and holster the weapon outside of the truck? Seems to me that would be a good way to earn a MWAG call. I drive a pickup by the way, so trunk isn't an option.
If we can't get "open carry in vehicles", then "permitless carry" will work just fine.
Of course, the police unions will ask for "permitless carry" to NOT apply to vehicle carry, and they'll probably get that exception.
MyWifeSaidYes
- Chuck
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Re: "Open" carrying in a vehicle
Leave your holster on
Put your UNLOADED gun in a Ziplock freezer bag
Put your loaded magazine in a Ziplock sandwich bag, and put that bag inside the first bag with the gun
Put that any where in the vehicle you like, and that will be legal
You can take the class anytime up to three years before you apply for your license
I have personally given the class to several people between the ages of eighteen and twenty-one so they were ready to apply on their twenty-first birthday
Good luck and stay safe out there
Put your UNLOADED gun in a Ziplock freezer bag
Put your loaded magazine in a Ziplock sandwich bag, and put that bag inside the first bag with the gun
Put that any where in the vehicle you like, and that will be legal
You can take the class anytime up to three years before you apply for your license
I have personally given the class to several people between the ages of eighteen and twenty-one so they were ready to apply on their twenty-first birthday
Good luck and stay safe out there
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)