"Open" carrying in a vehicle

[Werz]

Leave your holster on
Put your UNLOADED gun in a Ziplock freezer bag
Put your loaded magazine in a Ziplock sandwich bag, and put that bag inside the first bag with the gun
Put that any where in the vehicle you like, and that will be legal

I would not want to be the one arguing that a 1.2 mil transparent zip lock sandwich bag qualifies under the definitions set forth in R.C. 2923.16(K)(5)(b), particularly when a pistol rug with an exterior pocket can be had for less than $20.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

I would not want to be the one arguing that a 1.2 mil transparent zip lock sandwich bag qualifies under the definitions set forth in R.C. 2923.16(K)(5)(b), particularly when a pistol rug with an exterior pocket can be had for less than $20.

Why doesn't it qualify?

(b) For the purposes of division (K)(5)(a)(ii) of this section, a "container that provides complete and separate enclosure" includes, but is not limited to, any of the following:

(i) A package, box, or case with multiple compartments, as long as the loaded magazine or speed loader and the firearm in question either are in separate compartments within the package, box, or case, or, if they are in the same compartment, the magazine or speed loader is contained within a separate enclosure in that compartment that does not contain the firearm and that closes using a snap, button, buckle, zipper, hook and loop closing mechanism, or other fastener that must be opened to access the contents or the firearm is contained within a separate enclosure of that nature in that compartment that does not contain the magazine or speed loader;

[Werz]

I would not want to be the one arguing that a 1.2 mil transparent zip lock sandwich bag qualifies under the definitions set forth in R.C. 2923.16(K)(5)(b), particularly when a pistol rug with an exterior pocket can be had for less than $20.

Why doesn't it qualify?

(b) For the purposes of division (K)(5)(a)(ii) of this section, a "container that provides complete and separate enclosure" includes, but is not limited to, any of the following:

(i) A package, box, or case with multiple compartments, as long as the loaded magazine or speed loader and the firearm in question either are in separate compartments within the package, box, or case, or, if they are in the same compartment, the magazine or speed loader is contained within a separate enclosure in that compartment that does not contain the firearm and that closes using a snap, button, buckle, zipper, hook and loop closing mechanism, or other fastener that must be opened to access the contents or the firearm is contained within a separate enclosure of that nature in that compartment that does not contain the magazine or speed loader;

I never said that it unequivocally failed to qualify. I just wouldn't want to argue it. When a better solution is available for much, much less than it costs to hire an attorney, why take a chance? Especially if you're the guy who volunteers to try out novel interpretation only if someone else pays your attorney fees.

[varro]

Thanks for all the replies so far, they've been very helpful. I think I'm going to go with Chuck's idea and transport in plastic baggies. I wish I knew I could have taken the class early, I would have definitely done so. As of now, I'm scheduled for May 9th.
MWSY, I actually read techguy's post shortly after I posted mine. I really hope I don't have that type of encounter, but from what I've read on here it seems that most people who OC in Columbus don't have too many issues. I'll probably start at Cabela's since I know it will be a gun friendly atmosphere, but I'm going to be cautious about OCing anywhere near campus. As much as I like ruffling the feathers of the campus libs, I'm not looking for an encounter with the local PD.

[schmieg]

Thanks for all the replies so far, they've been very helpful. I think I'm going to go with Chuck's idea and transport in plastic baggies. I wish I knew I could have taken the class early, I would have definitely done so. As of now, I'm scheduled for May 9th.
MWSY, I actually read techguy's post shortly after I posted mine. I really hope I don't have that type of encounter, but from what I've read on here it seems that most people who OC in Columbus don't have too many issues. I'll probably start at Cabela's since I know it will be a gun friendly atmosphere, but I'm going to be cautious about OCing anywhere near campus. As much as I like ruffling the feathers of the campus libs, I'm not looking for an encounter with the local PD.

You might want to reconsider Werz' comments. He is a prosecuting attorney and his advice should be given a lot of weight.

[BobK]

Personally, I would view transporting in plastic baggies as being deliberately provocative.

Legal by the letter of the law? Yes. Just like those jackwagons open carrying AK's in Starbucks were legal by the letter of the law, but it doesn't mean they were acting wisely.

Can the same objective (carrying legally in a car) be easily and inexpensively achieved by less provocative means? Obviously.

[evan price]

other fastener that must be opened to access the contents

I think that's the crux of it. There is absolutely no problem accessing the contents through a ziplock bag: loading, chambering and firing.
While an argument could be made that this meets (minimally) the criteria set forth, it would be an argument brought up at your trial for serious life-altering charges.

Vance's sells zipper gun rugs for $4.99 in a variety of sizes and styles.


Wait a minute! You're wanting to go OC, and you're worried about a MWAG call for loading and holstering outside the truck? Really?

[Chuck]

Varro,
Two of my fellow posters whom I have great regard for, werz and BobK, both counsel against my advice, and their opinions should be given weight.
Although I fail to see how transporting in plastic bags could be considered "deliberately provocative", and the definition in the law in plainly written, I suppose one could have if an LEO decided to over reach his authority and supply his own definition.

I have to say I am very disturbed at Bob's comparison of legally transporting a handgun to belligerently bringing rifles into private businesses who don't want them there and causing damage to the entire gun rights movement.
I don't see it, but I do respect his opinion, highly, so perhaps I'm missing something

In the interest of full disclosure I will tell the board that I have instructed hundreds of students just as I have here, and many have transported just that way.
I have never heard of a problem with them doing so, but then I have never heard of a stop involving them neither.
Nor would I expect to UNLESS there was a problem

Bottom line is we all make our own choices in life, and ought to be prepared to deal with the results of them
Perhaps we SHOULD disregard the actual wording of the law in order to not "provoke authority"
Perhaps I should stop Open Carrying too; I would hate to provoke authority by my totally legal behavior

I stopped for a red light yesterday that the car behind me clearly wanted to run.
By the way he laid on the horn, I'm sure he thinks I provoked his actions
Maybe I ought to re-think my entire philosophy,,,,

[Chuck]

Wait a minute! You're wanting to go OC, and you're worried about a MWAG call for loading and holstering outside the truck? Really?

He only wants to OC until he gets his CHL
I think it's more about carrying as soon as he legally can rather than OCing vs CCing

[varro]

Chuck is right Evan, I'd much rather conceal but like I said in the original post, I believe I'd rather OC than not carry at all. I'm definitely not looking for any encounters, but do I feel prepared should I have one.

As to what werz suggested, I suppose I might as well play it safe and get a gun rug. I'd hate to run into any trouble before I even get the license!

[MyWifeSaidYes]

...
Maybe I ought to re-think my entire philosophy,,,,

Yeah. Let's start notifying when we aren't armed, as well.

[MyWifeSaidYes]

Putting my gun in even a small gun rug means that it will not fit in my glove compartment, so I can see a valid reason to use the baggie method.



Today I went out and did an experiment to compare the zippered gun rug vs. the zip-loc baggie. Any reason to visit the range, right?

First, I tried the zip-loc scenario.

I put my magazine and +1 round into a baggie, then put THAT baggie and my Ruger LCP into another baggie.

For purposes of the experiment, I kept the baggies separate, but together (side by side)

This is completely legal for unloaded transport in a vehicle under Ohio law.

While standing with the baggies on a table to my right, as if they were next to me on a car seat, I grabbed the gun grip through the baggie with my right hand and the baggie itself with my left, then pushed the gun through the thin plastic of the baggie. I grabbed the slide of the gun with my left hand and pulled the baggie free with my right. Even though the LCP is a small gun, it took more than a couple seconds to get the gun free. Then, with the gun in my left hand, I picked up the magazine with my right, grabbed the plastic with my left (while still holding the gun by the slide) and pushed the magazine through the thin plastic. Without completely removing the magazine from the plastic, I seated the mag, grabbed the gun with my right hand and racked the slide. The gun worked fine with no failures.

I also tried the gun rug scenario with a Velcro pocket for the magazine.

Same starting position. Magazine and +1 round are in interior pocket with Velcro closure. I grabbed the gun case with my right hand and opened the zipper with my left, then grabbed the gun grip with my left. Using my left hand to keep the gun case against my body, I opened the magazine pocket with my right, grabbed the mag, seated it and racked the slide.

What I found is that IT IS FASTER to get to the gun and load it when it is in a zippered gun case THAN WHEN IT IS IN A BAGGIE.


PLEASE NOTE that I did try to insert the magazine into the gun while still in the baggies, or just one or the other still in a baggie. The plastic is thin BUT VERY STRETCHABLE. My magazine failed to seat a couple times, but a failure to feed happened on the first round EVERY TIME.

So yeah, I would be happy to carry this way if/when necessary.

[Werz]

I have to say I am very disturbed at Bob's comparison of legally transporting a handgun to belligerently bringing rifles into private businesses who don't want them there and causing damage to the entire gun rights movement.
I don't see it, but I do respect his opinion, highly, so perhaps I'm missing something

It's the whole "poking with a pointy stick" thing, Chuck. Some folks actually believe that if they are narrowly within the bounds of the law, there will be no consequences of any kind. Maybe that is self-delusion; maybe it's a complete lack of social interaction. Once an "edgy" practice takes hold, people react, and those who make the rules respond. That's what happened in Texas:

1. Open carry advocates started carrying ARs and AKs into national chain stores;
2. Mom's Demand Action started their jihad;
3. Large corporations started publicly asking people not to bring firearms into their businesses;
4. Open carry got a bad reputation; and
5. Open carry laws became poison in the state legislature.

Actions have consequences. Just because those consequences are not direct does not mean they are not foreseeable.

The same was true with "pushing the envelope" on the Sig Arm Brace, as I discussed here.

I know that some people live to push the limits. And some of it is legal. But those people should not pretend that it has no consequences, nor should they pretend that they could not predict those consequences.

[Chuck]

I have to say I am very disturbed at Bob's comparison of legally transporting a handgun to belligerently bringing rifles into private businesses who don't want them there and causing damage to the entire gun rights movement.
I don't see it, but I do respect his opinion, highly, so perhaps I'm missing something

It's the whole "poking with a pointy stick" thing, Chuck. Some folks actually believe that if they are narrowly within the bounds of the law, there will be no consequences of any kind. Maybe that is self-delusion; maybe it's a complete lack of social interaction. Once an "edgy" practice takes hold, people react, and those who make the rules respond. That's what happened in Texas:

1. Open carry advocates started carrying ARs and AKs into national chain stores;
2. Mom's Demand Action started their jihad;
3. Large corporations started publicly asking people not to bring firearms into their businesses;
4. Open carry got a bad reputation; and
5. Open carry laws became poison in the state legislature.

Actions have consequences. Just because those consequences are not direct does not mean they are not foreseeable.

The same was true with "pushing the envelope" on the Sig Arm Brace, as I discussed here.

I know that some people live to push the limits. And some of it is legal. But those people should not pretend that it has no consequences, nor should they pretend that they could not predict those consequences.

Oh my gosh, you're right!
He should have a portable safe bolted to his truck bed to transport in until he gets his license

[Chuck]

I have to say I am very disturbed at Bob's comparison of legally transporting a handgun to belligerently bringing rifles into private businesses who don't want them there and causing damage to the entire gun rights movement.
I don't see it, but I do respect his opinion, highly, so perhaps I'm missing something

It's the whole "poking with a pointy stick" thing, Chuck. Some folks actually believe that if they are narrowly within the bounds of the law, there will be no consequences of any kind. Maybe that is self-delusion; maybe it's a complete lack of social interaction. Once an "edgy" practice takes hold, people react, and those who make the rules respond. That's what happened in Texas:

1. Open carry advocates started carrying ARs and AKs into national chain stores;
2. Mom's Demand Action started their jihad;
3. Large corporations started publicly asking people not to bring firearms into their businesses;
4. Open carry got a bad reputation; and
5. Open carry laws became poison in the state legislature.

Actions have consequences. Just because those consequences are not direct does not mean they are not foreseeable.

The same was true with "pushing the envelope" on the Sig Arm Brace, as I discussed here.

I know that some people live to push the limits. And some of it is legal. But those people should not pretend that it has no consequences, nor should they pretend that they could not predict those consequences.

I'm just trying to help a guy stay within the law for a few weeks until he can get his license. He ain't trying to poke anything, he just wants to be left alone and stay legal.
I don't see what's edgy about putting your gun in a freezer bag with the magazine in another bag and putting it in the glove box, center console, or on the seat beside him while he droves to his next stop.

It's INSIDE THE PRIVACY OF HIS CAR
It's EXACTLY WHAT THE LAW PRESCRIBES
and,,,,, it's OUT OF SIGHT

Who, exactly, is being provoked, and poked, whose envelope is being pushed, and most importantly, who is being victimized by his choice of gun case for the next few weeks?

Do you really think this guy trying to get by for the next few weeks REALLY equates to all that stuff you just typed?