Open carry, beer in hand, no shooting?

[phillip]

I could research this question but I am sure it would take ME hours to get to ORC relevant code, while I might ask here and get learned replies probably before I finish typing the question! Also, it may be of interest to some others?

I will begin with the obvious: alcohol and firearms do not mix. I am not suggesting to do so. Corollary is it is a given there is zero tolerance for alcohol and CHL. OK, that is a given. I suggest there may be a gray area between like this....

Say you are at home on a Saturday afternoon, working around the yard, so have your OWB holstered EDC OPEN CARRY - not covered. No CHL involved. Three scenarios please:

1) You have a beer in one hand, grass whip in other, doing your thing. BEER NOT OPEN. Is there any ORC law broken if you do not touch your firearm?

2) You have a beer in one hand, grass whip in other, doing your thing. BEER IS OPEN. Is there any ORC law broken if you do not touch your firearm?

3) 1) You have a beer in one hand, grass whip in other, doing your thing. BEER NOT OPEN, but you have had one already and it easily recognizable on your breath, Is there any ORC law broken if you do not touch your firearm?

I THINK the letter of the law in Ohio is ALL three scenarios are illegal if firearm is CONCEALED - but NOT if open carry and you do not TOUCH it.

[pirateguy191]

Situation #1 - I have carried plenty of beer from the store to my car while open and concealed carrying. Nothing illegal about it. Nothing illegal about an open can or bottle in your hand while carrying.

[JustaShooter]

ORC 2923.121 wouldn't apply since you aren't in a bar, but 2923.15 would apply, CHL or not, when not in a bar:

From http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2923.15 Using weapons while intoxicated.

(A) No person, while under the influence of alcohol or any drug of abuse, shall carry or use any firearm or dangerous ordnance.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of using weapons while intoxicated, a misdemeanor of the first degree.

So no problem unless and until you are "under the influence".

[phillip]

ORC 2923.121 wouldn't apply since you aren't in a bar, but 2923.15 would apply, CHL or not, when not in a bar:

From http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2923.15 Using weapons while intoxicated.

(A) No person, while under the influence of alcohol or any drug of abuse, shall carry or use any firearm or dangerous ordnance.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of using weapons while intoxicated, a misdemeanor of the first degree.

So no problem unless and until you are "under the influence".

Sticky point but is it:

unless and until you are "under the influence".

or

unless and until you are "intoxicated".

Sounds like A) is something 'not to do' but does not list anything one is guilty of, while B) does. And the initial description is 'intoxicated' not 'under the influence' also?

I believe 'intoxicated' means above the state limit of 0.08 level, where 'under the influence' has no minimum limit? Hence why CHL can be interpreted as having 1 beer is too many. So it seems the distinction is pretty important and would make sense for us to know for sure in open carry?

[docachna]

I believe 'intoxicated' means above the state limit of 0.08 level, where 'under the influence' has no minimum limit? Hence why CHL can be interpreted as having 1 beer is too many. So it seems the distinction is pretty important and would make sense for us to know for sure in open carry?

The 0.08 BAC limit applies only while you are operating a motor vehicle. "Intoxicated" in other situations, either not involving a motor vehicle, or as a passenger in a motor vehicle, rests solely in the eye of the beholder - i.e., if the LEO thinks you're intoxicated, you're probably taking the ride.

[Chuck]

I think that the two terms are interchangeable, at least legally

The law says that if you are "under the influence" while carrying, you are guilty of using weapons while intoxicated
Same with driving, I think

I am not a lawyer, however,,,,

[carmen fovozzo]

I think #2 might be a hassle for you if you are stopped by LE..

[pirateguy191]

I think #2 might be a hassle for you if you are stopped by LE..

Hassle maybe, illegal no.

[JustaShooter]

ORC 2923.121 wouldn't apply since you aren't in a bar, but 2923.15 would apply, CHL or not, when not in a bar:

From http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/2923.15" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2923.15 Using weapons while intoxicated.

(A) No person, while under the influence of alcohol or any drug of abuse, shall carry or use any firearm or dangerous ordnance.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of using weapons while intoxicated, a misdemeanor of the first degree.

So no problem unless and until you are "under the influence".

Sticky point but is it:

unless and until you are "under the influence".

or

unless and until you are "intoxicated".

Sounds like A) is something 'not to do' but does not list anything one is guilty of, while B) does. And the initial description is 'intoxicated' not 'under the influence' also?

I believe 'intoxicated' means above the state limit of 0.08 level, where 'under the influence' has no minimum limit? Hence why CHL can be interpreted as having 1 beer is too many. So it seems the distinction is pretty important and would make sense for us to know for sure in open carry?

A is the violation, B is the charge for the violation. So, don't carry or use a firearm while under the influence, or you'll be guilty of using weapons while intoxicated.

[BobK]

1) You have a beer in one hand, grass whip in other, doing your thing. BEER NOT OPEN. Is there any ORC law broken if you do not touch your firearm?

Not illegal as described.

2) You have a beer in one hand, grass whip in other, doing your thing. BEER IS OPEN. Is there any ORC law broken if you do not touch your firearm?

Not illegal as described.

3) 1) You have a beer in one hand, grass whip in other, doing your thing. BEER NOT OPEN, but you have had one already and it easily recognizable on your breath, Is there any ORC law broken if you do not touch your firearm?

Not illegal as described.

Note for all three, none of the actions as decribed are illegal. Touching your firearm has nothing to do with it.

I THINK the letter of the law in Ohio is ALL three scenarios are illegal if firearm is CONCEALED - but NOT if open carry and you do not TOUCH it.

Also incorrect. Has nothing to do with open carry or concealed carry.

As noted above, you are either under the influence or you are not. The illegality stems from being under the influence, not from whether or not the beer is open or not, you are touching the firearm or not, or if you are open carrying or not.

[Werz]

I think that the two terms are interchangeable, at least legally

The law says that if you are "under the influence" while carrying, you are guilty of using weapons while intoxicated
Same with driving, I think

I am not a lawyer, however,,,,

<sigh> You are 100% right, Chuck. When will people stop reading the convenient name of the statute and start reading the actual elements of the offense?

R.C. 2923.15. Using weapons while intoxicated
(A) No person, while under the influence of alcohol or any drug of abuse, shall carry or use any firearm or dangerous ordnance.
(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of using weapons while intoxicated, a misdemeanor of the first degree.

So what does "under the influence" mean? Here is how a jury will be instructed:

"UNDER THE INFLUENCE. 'Under the influence' means that the defendant (consumed) (used) some (alcohol) (drug of abuse) in such quantity that it adversely affected his/her actions or mental processes to deprive him/her of that (clearness of intellect) (control of himself/herself) which he/she would otherwise have possessed." OJI CR 523.15(2).

Now, some folks may whine and moan that the definition above is not very specific. Too bad. It's called assumption of risk. When you voluntarily consume alcohol, you assume the risk of becoming "intoxicated" or "under the the influence." This concept should not be foreign to gun folks. If you carry or use a firearm, you assume certain risks related to your control of that firearm, the primary of which is the responsibility to comply with Jeff Cooper's Four Rules. When you engage in certain acts, you assume certain responsibilities. When you make a voluntary choice to consume alcohol and carry or use a firearm, you assume the risks inherent with both actions. No whining, no excuses.

[phillip]

Thank you all for the replies. It made this concept crystal clear.

[carmen fovozzo]

OP...can you tell me why you would have a beer in you're hand in that situation in the first place ?

[Chuck]

OP...can you tell me why you would have a beer in you're hand in that situation in the first place ?

Helping the Missus carry in groceries for one thing, enjoying a cold one while flipping burgers on the grill for another.
Just finished mowing the lawn and sitting on the front porch drinking a beer, playing cards with our friends on a Friday night,
Nothing in the law requires disarming before having a beer, and certainly nothing about carrying one that isn't opened at all

Only carrying under the influence is prohibited
Know your limitations and carry on,,,,

[carmen fovozzo]

Chucky baby...It's not normal to carry a beer while whacking your weeds....that is what I want to know...