Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

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color of law
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by color of law »

Werz wrote:
TunnelRat wrote:And no one is saying we're against open carry (I open carry daily). What we're saying is don't be a jerk--funny how often we need to say that... 8)
Maybe because so many jerks like to portray themselves as freedom fighters? :wink:
Like I said on the Medina OC "incident" thread.
Lets teach them how to do it. Lets not tear them down.

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BobK
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by BobK »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:When did handgun open carry first become illegal in Texas?
Well, before the CHL law was passed in 1995, the charge was "Unlawful Carrying Weapons". It had nothing to do with concealed or open, you simply were not allowed to carry a handgun at all.

The right to carry was lost in 1871 with the passage of a law entitled "An Act to Regulate the Keeping and Bearing of Deadly Weapons Law of April 12, 1871, Ch. 34, Sec. 1, 1871 Texas General Laws 25", a product of the Texas Reconstruction Act of 1871. This law prohibited the carry of a firearm except in the case of personal protection from an immediate and imminent threat and any claim of such a threat had to be shown and proven as a valid claim. Violation of the law was punishable by a fine of $25 - $100 and forfeiture of the firearm. In addition, the law contained a mandatory arrest clause, meaning an officer was to arrest on sight without a warrant. (Incidentally, the law required that a person carrying a firearm under the exemption clause had to carry the firearm openly.)

This law remained in effect following the adoption of the current Texas Constitution in 1876 and was the charge Dallas police used against Franklin P. Miller in the landmark capitol murder case of 1894 that ultimately led to the Miller v Texas U.S. Supreme Court case which, among other things, challenged the laws constitutionality under the second amendment. In this case, SCOTUS upheld the Texas law banning the carry of weapons as well as the other provisions of the Texas Reconstruction Act.

Since the enactment of this law in 1871, Texas has maintained a law against the carry of handguns in one manner or another until the passage of concealed handgun licensing by the 1995 legislature.

For the first 80-90 years, the law was enforced primarily against African-Americans, Hispanics, carpetbaggers, and people "known to be criminals". Ordinary white Texans were not concerned. By the 50s-60s, things were changing to also charge ordinary white Texans, and the current law Texas PC §46.02. UNLAWFUL CARRYING WEAPONS was enacted in 1973. It is still unlawful to carry a handgun open or concealed, but the law is written such that if you meet certain exemptions the law does not apply. Some exemptions are in your home, in your own business, in your car (as long as it is concealed), or possessing a CHL (as long as it is concealed).
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by MacDonald »

Walking in, carrying a long gun may be legal, but obviously not prudent. Just like with Starbucks, some jerks have ruined it for everyone.

OC is legal in Ohio, but let's not abuse it.
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BobK
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by BobK »

Werz wrote:
TunnelRat wrote:And no one is saying we're against open carry (I open carry daily). What we're saying is don't be a jerk--funny how often we need to say that... 8)
Maybe because so many jerks like to portray themselves as freedom fighters? :wink:
Here is another one that hit the news down here. Beaumont TX is on the coast, about midway between Houston and Louisiana state line.

A lone open carrier with an AR walked through a crowded shopping mall unannounced. He was stopped by police and arrested for disturbing the peace ("displays a firearm or other deadly weapon in a public place in a manner calculated to alarm;").

Now, you are all well aware that the 30.06 signs ("the big ugly sign") are required if a business wants to prevent concealed handgun licensees from carrying here. In the last three and a half years here, I have only seen one private business (the fingerprinting place) and one hospital that are posted. I've never, ever seen a retail store that posted. Ever.

The shopping mall where this OC was arrested posted 30.06 signs shortly thereafter, prohibiting concealed carry by licensees. Please note that all they needed to post was something as "No guns" and it would have sufficed for preventing open carry of long arms. Instead, they posted for all concealed handguns.

This plays into the open carry discussion here in Texas because CHL's are worried that open carrying will cause businesses to post. This fear is not entirely unfounded.

See Texas Mall open carry incident leads to CCH permit holders being punished
A week ago today we wrote about Derek Poe, the AR-15 open carrier that had his rifle seized after carrying it slung across his back inside the mall police said was “in a manner calculated to alarm.”

We noted that at the time, the mall had a policy against weapons. It wasn’t enforced, however, and the required “30.06″ signs were not posted, allowing concealed carry.

Thanks to the incident Mr. Poe created and the fear he apparently created in mall shoppers, Parkdale Mall has now posted the required legal signage banned all firearms, both open and concealed.

After a man’s arrest for carrying a rifle in public, Parkdale Mall has posted signs prohibiting concealed firearms at entrances, a reinforcement of the company’s longtime policy that nonetheless is catching some flak.

Derek Poe, 26, owner of Golden Triangle Tactical in the mall, had an AR-15 rifle seized by police Dec. 28 after police received calls from shoppers who said they were “terrified” at the sight of a man carrying a rifle through the mall.

An warrant was issued for Poe’s arrest on a misdemeanor charge of disturbing the peace. He turned himself in last week.

“Parkdale Mall has never allowed the carrying of weapons of any kind except those carried by certified law enforcement officers in the performance of their duties,” wrote Todd Anderton, the regional marketing director for CBL and Associates Properties in an email Thursday. “This policy has always been part of the mall’s code of conduct.”

Parkdale Mall always had an official policy against guns on the property to cover themselves as a legal matter, but they had not posted the signs that would have given that policy legal teeth, tacitly allowing legal concealed carry.

That’s gone now. The legal right to carry a concealed weapon in Parkdale Mall is gone. Shoppers now have a true “gun free zone,” thanks to the response by the mall to the actions of a lone long gun open carry advocate
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by TunnelRat »

BobK wrote:That’s gone now. The legal right to carry a concealed weapon in Parkdale Mall is gone. Shoppers now have a true “gun free zone,” thanks to the response by the mall to the actions of a lone long gun open carry advocate
But, but, his rights... the Second Amendment...from my cold dead hands... :roll:
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Texas and California are far different animals than Ohio.

Texas' constitution expressly allows for firearm regulation by laws, and California's constitution simply has no RKBA clause.

While I acknowledge the ability for the OGA to change both the state Constitution AND state law, I have to wonder about the differences in states like California and Texas when compared to a state like Ohio.
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by JediSkipdogg »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Texas and California are far different animals than Ohio.

Texas' constitution expressly allows for firearm regulation by laws, and California's constitution simply has no RKBA clause.

While I acknowledge the ability for the OGA to change both the state Constitution AND state law, I have to wonder about the differences in states like California and Texas when compared to a state like Ohio.
Why are we even talking constitution? I don't see why that needs to be changed at all. Just do it all though state law and restrict that way. They already restrict open carry in alcohol establishments but grant the ability to concealed carry holders. They restrict loaded carry in cars yet allow it for concealed carry. Seems pretty simple for the OGA to restrict carrying in private businesses unless issued a CHL among many other ideas they could implement.
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by dan dan the XD40 man »

Lots of "could", "maybe", and "might" up in here.
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by BriKuz »

JediSkipdogg wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Texas and California are far different animals than Ohio.

Texas' constitution expressly allows for firearm regulation by laws, and California's constitution simply has no RKBA clause.

While I acknowledge the ability for the OGA to change both the state Constitution AND state law, I have to wonder about the differences in states like California and Texas when compared to a state like Ohio.
Why are we even talking constitution? I don't see why that needs to be changed at all. Just do it all though state law and restrict that way. They already restrict open carry in alcohol establishments but grant the ability to concealed carry holders. They restrict loaded carry in cars yet allow it for concealed carry. Seems pretty simple for the OGA to restrict carrying in private businesses unless issued a CHL among many other ideas they could implement.
Correct me if I am wrong, but they restrict carry by an unlicensed individual in alcohol establishments, NOT open carry... a person may still OC if they have their CHL.
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by JediSkipdogg »

BriKuz wrote:
JediSkipdogg wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Texas and California are far different animals than Ohio.

Texas' constitution expressly allows for firearm regulation by laws, and California's constitution simply has no RKBA clause.

While I acknowledge the ability for the OGA to change both the state Constitution AND state law, I have to wonder about the differences in states like California and Texas when compared to a state like Ohio.
Why are we even talking constitution? I don't see why that needs to be changed at all. Just do it all though state law and restrict that way. They already restrict open carry in alcohol establishments but grant the ability to concealed carry holders. They restrict loaded carry in cars yet allow it for concealed carry. Seems pretty simple for the OGA to restrict carrying in private businesses unless issued a CHL among many other ideas they could implement.
Correct me if I am wrong, but they restrict carry by an unlicensed individual in alcohol establishments, NOT open carry... a person may still OC if they have their CHL.
Semantics, but yes. It wouldn't be to hard to make carrying of a firearm in general in the public as needing a license. Just some votes and it's done.
Carrying Concealed Handguns - Signage Answers

Ohio Concealed Carry Classes in S/W Ohio
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I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by gfrlaser »

Impromptu Long Gun carry is giving easy wins to Bloomberg's nanny groups.
I think this is true.
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by curmudgeon3 »

I don't remember ever seeing anyone carrying a long gun in a restaurant or bar ........ seems like it would look a little out-of-place, but to each his own. It's legal.
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by color of law »

Apparently some don't understand the differences between privilege and rights.

The state owns all liquor within the political boundaries of Ohio. All liquor served in bars is controlled by complicated licensing process. Try to get a liquor license without local government approval. And because of this highly regulated industry the state says what you are going to and not going to do in one of their liquor establishments. Walking in a bar is a privilege, not a right.

This also applies to your automobile. It's a privilege to drive/operate a motor vehicle. Your right to travel is on your own two feet, not in a car.

Justifying the exercising of a right by using an example of privilege is disingenuous.
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by color of law »

curmudgeon3 wrote:I don't remember ever seeing anyone carrying a long gun in a restaurant or bar ........ seems like it would look a little out-of-place, but to each his own. It's legal.
Correct. But, I have seen long guns carried in restaurants.
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion

Post by Tweed Ring »

NavyChief wrote:Further substantiation that no Jack-in-the-Box employees were in fear for their lives:
However, Sergeant Ray Bush of the Forth Worth Police Department wrote in an email last week that the employees at the Jack in the Box where Open Carry Texas staged a demonstration, “locked themselves inside a freezer for protection out of fear the rifle-carrying men would rob them.”

http://buzzpo.com/moms-demand-action-ca ... nstration/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
We can hope - hope - that perhaps this whole thing backfires on them. But we all know better. At the very least it would be nice to see the good Sergeant disciplined. But again, we know that probably won't happen.

Oh, and I've said before: I am not against OC. Let me say that again in case anyone wasn't listening: I am not against OC. It is not my style, probably never will be. Howsomever even I do it on occasion. And I genuinely appreciate those that are willing to push the envelope. But. Long gun OC seems counter-productive. Even in Texas, where the long gun OC makes sense from a "raising awareness" point of view it is fraught with peril to the cause.

Edit to add:
On the off chance "Moms" are called out on this in national media ( :roll: ) I can already hear the answer:
a) "We were using the information supplied us, and besides the response in the petition was what the public really wants," or;
b) "The facts may not have been EXACTLY accurate but it highlighted the greater truth," or;
c)   some combination of the above.
I have no idea what the correct fact-pattern is in the situation This article seems to contradict the original story. The truth is out there somewhere, isn't it? Maybe? Maybe not?

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