Raising awareness and prompting discussion
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- MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
Dan dan, would you simplify that to: "Don't do it, or we may not be able to do it when WE want to do it."
Even a well-organized event may have negative effects, regardless of who organized the event.
The actions of the Beavercreek long gun OC'er, the one that openly admitted to trolling for a payday, had a direct impact on Cleveland releasing their directive on open carriers.
The actions of an organized NEO Carry walk in Akron, complete with flags and matching t-shirts, discovered the "you MUST show me ID" attitude of Akron PD.
The actions of the Lorain open carrier discovered the attitudes of more than one police agency.
Should someone in the state Senate actually bring HB 203 up for a hearing, I would hope to see many long gun OC'ers willing to testify that they were simply exercising a right and not going about to the terror of the people.
The 911 calls for the Medina incident are evidence that the callers were not frightened, but merely concerned. At least, that's how they sounded to me.
Even a well-organized event may have negative effects, regardless of who organized the event.
The actions of the Beavercreek long gun OC'er, the one that openly admitted to trolling for a payday, had a direct impact on Cleveland releasing their directive on open carriers.
The actions of an organized NEO Carry walk in Akron, complete with flags and matching t-shirts, discovered the "you MUST show me ID" attitude of Akron PD.
The actions of the Lorain open carrier discovered the attitudes of more than one police agency.
Should someone in the state Senate actually bring HB 203 up for a hearing, I would hope to see many long gun OC'ers willing to testify that they were simply exercising a right and not going about to the terror of the people.
The 911 calls for the Medina incident are evidence that the callers were not frightened, but merely concerned. At least, that's how they sounded to me.
MyWifeSaidYes
- MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
And I do agree with Jedi that you should check in advance if you are going to OC a long gun in a private business.
MyWifeSaidYes
- Werz
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
You can exercise a constitutional right and still have a purpose to cause distress to the more timid members of the public. As I have said many times before, other acts of "political theatre," such as flag-burning or clothing with profane political statements, are also protected by the Constitution, yet they still cause people distress and are intended to do so. Sometimes that is necessary to accomplishing political goals. On a regular basis, it is not.MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Should someone in the state Senate actually bring HB 203 up for a hearing, I would hope to see many long gun OC'ers willing to testify that they were simply exercising a right and not going about to the terror of the people.
The kid in Lorain, and the kid in Dayton/Beavercreek were both baiting cops. The latter was heard to admit it on video. Don't pee down my leg and tell me it's raining.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
- BobK
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
One doesn't even need a change in party control of the legislature.Tweed Ring wrote:As I said in a previous post, there will be pushback, in various forms. Thumb into the eye can be fun, but like elections, it can have consequences. If and when the hammer comes down, I hope it doesn’t impact Ohio concealed carry.
All it would take for us to lose Ohio concealed carry is for a majority of Liberals to be in control of both houses of the OGA, coupled with a Liberal governor to sign off on the repeal of same. Such a proposal/proposals could be as simple as:
1.) Open carry of firearms is now illegal in Ohio.
2.) Concealed carry of firearms is no longer legal in Ohio.
As a student of politics in Ohio for almost 50 years, I have seen the political pendulum swing back and forth, in terms of power and control. Anyone recall “Riffe Insurance?”
There have been open carry bills in the last two Texas Legislatures. The only reason both bills failed was primarily due to the antagonistic actions and bad behavior by certain open carry advocates who displayed an absolute tin ear for how politics are played. For example, last session they blew up a FB page with childish rants, complaints, and threats -- the FB page of the bill's sponsor -- because they thought it wasn't moving quickly enough. They totally irritated the legislators that had previously supported the bill.
I am a: NRA Life Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Texas Firearms Coalition Gold member, OFCC Patron Member, former JFPO member (pre-SAF).
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
More Obamination. Idiots. Can't we find an electable (R) for 2016?
This froggie ain't boiling! Shall not be infringed! Μολών Λαβέ
More Obamination. Idiots. Can't we find an electable (R) for 2016?
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
Bob, I don't normally agree with the concept of out and out antagonism such as you described. However, your report begs the question of just how long has open carry been a political football down there, anyhow? Frustration with what politicians and what Tweed Ring calls their 'kabuki theater' way of getting things other than fundraising done in such slow fashion, is way beyond mildly annoying. Especially when you know that all you're trying to do is get for the citizens of your home state something that many others already enjoy without problems. At the age of 52 and in pretty decent health, I expect there will be things we're still trying to get ironed out at the Ohio Statehouse when I shuffle off this planet. And for no good reason, really. Just politics.BobK wrote:There have been open carry bills in the last two Texas Legislatures. The only reason both bills failed was primarily due to the antagonistic actions and bad behavior by certain open carry advocates who displayed an absolute tin ear for how politics are played. For example, last session they blew up a FB page with childish rants, complaints, and threats -- the FB page of the bill's sponsor -- because they thought it wasn't moving quickly enough. They totally irritated the legislators that had previously supported the bill.
Last edited by Brian D. on Sun May 11, 2014 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
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1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
Further substantiation that no Jack-in-the-Box employees were in fear for their lives:
Oh, and I've said before: I am not against OC. Let me say that again in case anyone wasn't listening: I am not against OC. It is not my style, probably never will be. Howsomever even I do it on occasion. And I genuinely appreciate those that are willing to push the envelope. But. Long gun OC seems counter-productive. Even in Texas, where the long gun OC makes sense from a "raising awareness" point of view it is fraught with peril to the cause.
Edit to add:
On the off chance "Moms" are called out on this in national media ( ) I can already hear the answer:
a) "We were using the information supplied us, and besides the response in the petition was what the public really wants," or;
b) "The facts may not have been EXACTLY accurate but it highlighted the greater truth," or;
c) some combination of the above.
We can hope - hope - that perhaps this whole thing backfires on them. But we all know better. At the very least it would be nice to see the good Sergeant disciplined. But again, we know that probably won't happen.However, Sergeant Ray Bush of the Forth Worth Police Department wrote in an email last week that the employees at the Jack in the Box where Open Carry Texas staged a demonstration, “locked themselves inside a freezer for protection out of fear the rifle-carrying men would rob them.”
http://buzzpo.com/moms-demand-action-ca ... nstration/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Oh, and I've said before: I am not against OC. Let me say that again in case anyone wasn't listening: I am not against OC. It is not my style, probably never will be. Howsomever even I do it on occasion. And I genuinely appreciate those that are willing to push the envelope. But. Long gun OC seems counter-productive. Even in Texas, where the long gun OC makes sense from a "raising awareness" point of view it is fraught with peril to the cause.
Edit to add:
On the off chance "Moms" are called out on this in national media ( ) I can already hear the answer:
a) "We were using the information supplied us, and besides the response in the petition was what the public really wants," or;
b) "The facts may not have been EXACTLY accurate but it highlighted the greater truth," or;
c) some combination of the above.
Total repeal of ALL firearms/weapons laws at the local, state and federal levels. Period. Wipe the slate clean.
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
In California, for the most part the pendulum has been swinging left like that for many years, in spite of what the pro-gun advocates do in whatever fashion, from subtle and polite to downright rude. The state adds new restrictions and more guns get added to the "banned" list on a regular basis. That recent court ruling that will force the state's counties to become "shall issue" with carry license issuance, was the one little shuffle step to the right I've observed there in some time. That was by the judicial branch obviously, the legislators certainly showed no desire to ever do that. And it's the equivalent of a football punter not catching the snap cleanly, being forced to run for a first down, and actually succeeding. We likely won't see that again anytime soon.Mustang380gal wrote:Californians used to be able to carry unloaded handguns openly. That changed in the last few months, as I recall. I don't think they have any legal means to open carry now.Brian D. wrote:
Has such a thing ever happened in any of the other (56) U.S. states? Especially the end of carry license issuance in any state??
They may not be the best example, due to the almost extreme anti-freedom nature of the state. Things do have a way of trickling east, though. I never imagined Colorado's gun laws would become so negative.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!
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1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
Nice analogy. I'm keeping that one tucked in my pocket...Brian D. wrote:. . . equivalent of a football punter not catching the snap cleanly, being forced to run for a first down, and actually succeeding.
Total repeal of ALL firearms/weapons laws at the local, state and federal levels. Period. Wipe the slate clean.
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
In Ohio, it has always seemed to have been downstate Republicans, coupled with a few Conservative Democrats who have supported gun owners’ rights in our OGA. Even former Ohio Speaker Vern Riffe (D) who controlled the OGA with an iron fist, allowed his caucus to vote their conscious on only two issues…one being gun rights.BobK wrote:One doesn't even need a change in party control of the legislature.Tweed Ring wrote:As I said in a previous post, there will be pushback, in various forms. Thumb into the eye can be fun, but like elections, it can have consequences. If and when the hammer comes down, I hope it doesn’t impact Ohio concealed carry.
All it would take for us to lose Ohio concealed carry is for a majority of Liberals to be in control of both houses of the OGA, coupled with a Liberal governor to sign off on the repeal of same. Such a proposal/proposals could be as simple as:
1.) Open carry of firearms is now illegal in Ohio.
2.) Concealed carry of firearms is no longer legal in Ohio.
As a student of politics in Ohio for almost 50 years, I have seen the political pendulum swing back and forth, in terms of power and control. Anyone recall “Riffe Insurance?”
There have been open carry bills in the last two Texas Legislatures. The only reason both bills failed was primarily due to the antagonistic actions and bad behavior by certain open carry advocates who displayed an absolute tin ear for how politics are played. For example, last session they blew up a FB page with childish rants, complaints, and threats -- the FB page of the bill's sponsor -- because they thought it wasn't moving quickly enough. They totally irritated the legislators that had previously supported the bill.
Militant activists for any cause can create discord within the movement. I advocate against such folderol, but people are going to do what they believe is appropriate. I predict if the perfect storm occurs, open carry could become a historical footnote in Ohio. Since I rarely, if ever open carry, if such occurs, it will have no impact upon me. I do fear potential spillage onto Ohio's concealed carry law.
- dan dan the XD40 man
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
And the trap shooter guys dont think anyone needs an AR15, and cowboy shooters dont think anyone needs a Glock, etc etc...Tweed Ring wrote:<snip>
I do fear potential spillage onto Ohio's concealed carry law.
People want their own little "segment" protected, and are willing to sell out EVERYTHING else if it means they themselves arent affected.
Gross.
Poop!
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
I do not open carry. I do not care for open carry. I don’t care if people open carry or not – that is clearly their choice, and life is replete with choices.dan dan the XD40 man wrote:And the trap shooter guys dont think anyone needs an AR15, and cowboy shooters dont think anyone needs a Glock, etc etc...Tweed Ring wrote:<snip>
I do fear potential spillage onto Ohio's concealed carry law.
People want their own little "segment" protected, and are willing to sell out EVERYTHING else if it means they themselves arent affected.
Gross.
My friends, associates, peers, etc. and I have spent too much time and money making Ohio’s concealed carry a reality. I lobbied members of the OGA for many years. I don’t want it limited and/or repealed. It’s just that simple.
It's not about selling out. Rather, it's about keeping and expanding what we have.
Some people do not seem to be able to grasp how little we mean, in terms of votes and money, to our pols, compared to other power centers. .
- MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
BobK,
When did handgun open carry first become illegal in Texas?
When did handgun open carry first become illegal in Texas?
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
And no one is saying we're against open carry (I open carry daily). What we're saying is don't be a jerk--funny how often we need to say that...
TunnelRat
"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago
When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
"Applying the standard that is well established in our case law, we hold that the Second Amendment right is fully applicable to the States." ~ McDonald v. Chicago
When your only tools are a hammer and sickle, every problem starts to look like too much freedom.
- Werz
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Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
Maybe because so many jerks like to portray themselves as freedom fighters?TunnelRat wrote:And no one is saying we're against open carry (I open carry daily). What we're saying is don't be a jerk--funny how often we need to say that...
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
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- Joined: Tue Jun 05, 2007 9:15 am
Re: Raising awareness and prompting discussion
Because sometimes actions have consequences, and sometimes those consequences are negative.