Medina OC "incident"

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

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BB62
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Medina OC "incident"

Post by BB62 »

Two young fellows were apparently detained by Medina police on Monday, May 5, and ID was demanded of the one fellow who initially refused to provide it:

http://tinyurl.com/ncxa8b2" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

"One of the two men had a shotgun slung over his back and wore a black T-shirt emblazoned with white winged skulls.

The other had an AR-15 assault rifle on his back and a black semi-automatic pistol holstered at his waist.

They were walking around Public Square about 3 p.m. Monday as businesses bustled with customers and youngsters were leaving Garfield Elementary School.

The men say they weren’t a danger to the public. They said they were just exercising their Second Amendment rights to bear arms openly.

But police say such “open carry walks” scare many people and present officers with a difficult problem: How can police determine whether a person carrying a weapon is a felon, a minor or someone else prohibited from having firearms?..."
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by JustaShooter »

BB62 wrote:But police say such “open carry walks” scare many people and present officers with a difficult problem: How can police determine whether a person carrying a weapon is a felon, a minor or someone else prohibited from having firearms?..."
How about, if they aren't doing anything overtly illegal, you leave them alone? Monitor them, OK, sure, I have no problem with that and think it is probably a good idea. Approach them and talk with them during a consensual encounter, OK, sure - if nothing else, it lets people see you are "doing something" and lets them know the police are keeping an eye on them. But that should be it, unless they are doing something wrong - other than openly carrying that is.
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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by BB62 »

I agree.

btw, The Medina Gazette must be lacking for stories, because at this point I think there are about five of them related to or referring to this "incident".

Here are three more:

http://medinagazette.northcoastnow.com/ ... ic-tactic/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://medinagazette.northcoastnow.com/ ... 88request/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://medinagazette.northcoastnow.com/ ... s-planned/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by BriKuz »

Funny, I was JUST up in Medina picking up my open records request info pertaining to this incident and Medina Police's policies on firearms carry. Sat down in the square to read through the materials... Had no issues... perhaps the officers were briefed on NOT engaging after this incident? I SHOULD have done a request for any "MWAG" calls for service for yesterday, the 8th... see if the Chief was telling the truth about no calls for my wife and I...
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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by JediSkipdogg »

I was waiting for this to be brought up so I'm now going to throw my two cents and more at it. This is going to be a mixture of personal opinion and that of OFCC.

This is why OFCC is generally cautious on OC Events and how they are planned out and what cause they go forth with. OFCC has received a call from the statehouse that due to this incident there may be an amendment added to HB 203 to get a portion of it stripped out. The portion we are talking about deals with exercising a constitutional right is not groups for inducing panic. It may not even end there as there was also talk of the 1000' federal GFSZA. Unknown if they will try to extend that down to Ohio or not but this event obviously upset quite a few people that the phones went off the hook when they found out the police could do nothing on scene.

Therefore I advise everyone to think twice before you act and how you behave. Just remember, just because it's your right now, doesn't mean that right can't be taken away. There is a large lobbying effort when it comes to police, government, schools, etc. However, I've yet to see a lobbying group form up on open carry rights, they mainly ride on the coat tails at the statehouses of concealed carry groups. We try to go after all firearm rights, however, our representatives at the statehouse like that whole "you've passed a background check" idea.

Our advice, think about all outcomes before one acts. And this is not the first time an event has caused calls to the statehouse and had an effect on legislation.
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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by BriKuz »

Jedi, I totally respect your opinion on this... and your "riding the coat-tails" comment is right on...

I think that SOME groups need more experience with engaging people in persuasive conversation on the topic, NOT just in your face, Molon Labe, 3% rhetoric...

I fail to see how the codification of the case law on open carry NOT being grounds for "Inducing" really matters... the established case law says that it is not. (please correct me if I am wrong, I am NOT trying to be a PITA, here...)
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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by BB62 »

JediSkipdogg wrote:I was waiting for this to be brought up so I'm now going to throw my two cents and more at it. This is going to be a mixture of personal opinion and that of OFCC.

This is why OFCC is generally cautious on OC Events and how they are planned out and what cause they go forth with. OFCC has received a call from the statehouse that due to this incident there may be an amendment added to HB 203 to get a portion of it stripped out. The portion we are talking about deals with exercising a constitutional right is not groups for inducing panic. It may not even end there as there was also talk of the 1000' federal GFSZA. Unknown if they will try to extend that down to Ohio or not but this event obviously upset quite a few people that the phones went off the hook when they found out the police could do nothing on scene.

Therefore I advise everyone to think twice before you act and how you behave. Just remember, just because it's your right now, doesn't mean that right can't be taken away. There is a large lobbying effort when it comes to police, government, schools, etc. However, I've yet to see a lobbying group form up on open carry rights, they mainly ride on the coat tails at the statehouses of concealed carry groups. We try to go after all firearm rights, however, our representatives at the statehouse like that whole "you've passed a background check" idea.

Our advice, think about all outcomes before one acts. And this is not the first time an event has caused calls to the statehouse and had an effect on legislation.
What "concealed carry groups" are you referring to in Ohio? The Ohio RKBA groups I'm aware of claim to be about rights, not just privileges. Alternately, maybe the truth is finally out.
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by JediSkipdogg »

BriKuz wrote:I fail to see how the codification of the case law on open carry NOT being grounds for "Inducing" really matters... the established case law says that it is not. (please correct me if I am wrong, I am NOT trying to be a PITA, here...)
I never understood how it matters but it seems some wanted it and that's why it was added. I think it's because case law IMO is a PITA. Can you really expect every officer on the road to know case law for the past 200 years? At my department we get a monthly update put out by the state, that's great if you keep up to date. But what about the 20-50 years before one was hired? Spend two months reading case law because the ORC hasn't been updated?

I personally hate the term case law. If it's case law, put it in codified law so the ones that are forced to enforce it can more easily access it and know it exists. Till I read about it on here (5 years ago maybe), I never knew case law existed on on the matter. And I've been working my current job (remember, just as a dispatcher so not one to enforce it) for 9 years. So for 4 years I never heard any mention in my department of this case law. How many officers are out there like that?
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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by JediSkipdogg »

BB62 wrote:What "concealed carry groups" are you referring to in Ohio? The Ohio RKBA groups I'm aware of claim to be about rights, not just privileges. Alternately, maybe the truth is finally out.
OFCC and BFA are the only two lobbying groups in Ohio, while both of our goals are firearm rights, you could say we give more for concealed carry reform, or should I say for that pesky little license. There's a lot of places one can open carry but only after they have a license. So I guess I should say the "license carry groups." You can twist my words any other way that you want but I don't see what that has to do with the point of my post. As far as I know, Ohio Carry has no lobbying group yet. I'm excluding the NRA and 2nd Amendment Foundations as they really just give some input but don't push for state legislation.

Remember, we don't write the law. We persuade those that write it to pass it. If we wanted it all, we'd still be waiting. We'd have never seen concealed carry in Ohio without give or take and we do that with every bill that is written to make licensed carry better in Ohio. Will Ohio ever see constitutional carry? I can guarantee you that's a big no as long as the FOP and OSP have their leaders in charge that are so against it.
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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by Mustang380gal »

Jedi, did you mean "exercising a constitutional right is not grounds for inducing panic"?
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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by BB62 »

JediSkipdogg wrote:
BB62 wrote:What "concealed carry groups" are you referring to in Ohio? The Ohio RKBA groups I'm aware of claim to be about rights, not just privileges. Alternately, maybe the truth is finally out.
...You can twist my words any other way that you want...
I guess I must have missed the part where I "twisted" your words. Maybe you can point it out? :roll:

Remember, it was you who said "However, I've yet to see a lobbying group form up on open carry rights, they mainly ride on the coat tails at the statehouses of concealed carry groups."
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by carmen fovozzo »

This was bound to happen...and I said it would....

We don't need any negative situations like this....

I believe this was 2 OC guys trying to educate a whole town as big as Madina...Can't see that happening in a positive way..

IMO OC walks should have plenty of people in them....there is no impact with 2 people walking around town with weapons...looking for confrontation or educating LE is two different animals IMO..
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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by BB62 »

carmen fovozzo wrote:This was bound to happen...and I said it would....

We don't need any negative situations like this....

I believe this was 2 OC guys trying to educate a whole town as big as Madina...Can't see that happening in a positive way..

IMO OC walks should have plenty of people in them....there is no impact with 2 people walking around town with weapons...looking for confrontation or educating LE is two different animals IMO..
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Is there anything positive about open carry in your world?

Should it be done by one person, by a group, with green eggs and ham? What would make YOU happy, dear sir?
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by WestonDon »

I have had several occasions during casual conversations to politely inform people that open carry of a firearm is legal in Ohio. Reactions range from interest in learning more to a shocked "Well it shouldn't be". It is the latter group that concerns me. I can see how in your face encounters with the public can have an adverse effect on legislation for the cause. It is a fine line we walk. Sometimes gentle persuasion can accomplish more than shrill demands.
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Re: Medina OC "incident"

Post by BriKuz »

Guys, Janae and I were there yesterday, and had civil conversations with more than two dozen people... one mother with her 6 week old was sitting next to my wife as they fed their respective children and chatted for about an hour while Ashtyn (our 3 year old) played with this other woman's other kids... it was 45 minutes into the conversation until they finally even realized that J and I were armed! They were startled, then interested, then were talking of where to find info on CHL classes... we also met 3 middle aged women and their mother who were ALL CHL holders and carrying... lol

I think that one or two people CAN make a difference, if they communicate in the correct way...
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