Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The Pub

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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by Curzyk »

On YouTube, there are many videos of people attempting to test police, and the people don’t always use guns.

In one video, a man appears to be smoking what looks like marijuana, but after an officer approaches, they reveal its tobacco.

In another video, people are seen squeezing water out of a bottle so it looks as if they are urinating.
You'll find the water bottle pranks
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nVmm3zobCM" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7TzPEYci_w" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
and many others here: https://www.youtube.com/user/RomanAtwood/videos" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Most of the pranks are harmless and hilarious, however some are not in good taste.
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by JediSkipdogg »

Pecker wrote:I'd say the goal would be more like this:
"911 What is your emergency?"

"There's a man with a gun walking down the street."

"Is he pointing it at anyone or threatening them?"

"No, he's just walking his dog...but he's got a gun."

"That's not a crime."

"But he's got a gun."

"That's not a crime, have a nice day."
And when you are willing to pay for me to go to the police academy or make all dispatchers in Ohio certified by the state, I'll gladly handle a call like that.

Educate the public.... not the police. I'd love to see the open carry crowd care enough that they go together and buy some billboard space for a few months.
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by Werz »

JediSkipdogg wrote:
Pecker wrote:I'd say the goal would be more like this:
"911 What is your emergency?"

"There's a man with a gun walking down the street."

"Is he pointing it at anyone or threatening them?"

"No, he's just walking his dog...but he's got a gun."

"That's not a crime."

"But he's got a gun."

"That's not a crime, have a nice day."
And when you are willing to lay for me to go to the police academy or make all dispatchers in Ohio certified by the state, I'll gladly handle a call like that.

Educate the public.... not the police. I'd love to see the open carry crowd care enough that they go together and buy some billboard space for a few months.
Wow. I was thinking exactly the same thing. And you know that the TV news would take notice and publicize it, too. Free extra publicity.

But baiting the cops seems to be preferred because it's like a bouncer beating up a drunk: it's fun, it's easy, and there's an arguable justification for doing it.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
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"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Splat!! wrote:
Pecker wrote:I'd say the goal would be more like this:

"911 What is your emergency?"

"There's a man with a gun walking down the street."

"Is he pointing it at anyone or threatening them?"

"No, he's just walking his dog...but he's got a gun."

"That's not a crime."

"But he's got a gun."

"That's not a crime, have a nice day."


Exactly....
If every caller could provide perfect AND complete information to the dispatcher, maybe.

But what about the trail of blood behind the MWAG that the caller forgot to mention? Or the group of people behind him trying to flag down help?

Neither situation means the MWAG is actually a bad guy, but I would like someone to investigate.

That won't happen if the call is dropped at the dispatcher.

The police SHOULD respond, but not treat the OC'er like a criminal without cause.
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by JediSkipdogg »

Werz wrote:Wow. I was thinking exactly the same thing. And you know that the TV news would take notice and publicize it, too. Free extra publicity.

But baiting the cops seems to be preferred because it's like a bouncer beating up a drunk: it's fun, it's easy, and there's an arguable justification for doing it.
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:If every caller could provide perfect AND complete information to the dispatcher, maybe.

But what about the trail of blood behind the MWAG that the caller forgot to mention? Or the group of people behind him trying to flag down help?

Neither situation means the MWAG is actually a bad guy, but I would like someone to investigate.

That won't happen if the call is dropped at the dispatcher.

The police SHOULD respond, but not treat the OC'er like a criminal without cause.
Here's the way I envision all of it happening....

Billboards (as they are less likely to refuse controversial advertising than say TV or Radio) that have pictures of people walking down a normal street with a gun on their hip. No long guns, let's start with what people normally carry. Add some big text like...."THE FOLLOWING IS NOT A CRIME.....VISIT NOTACRIME.ORG FOR MORE INFO"

This does it two fold...one educates the public. Two...guess what, police are the public as well. So you are educating them at the same time. Police can and have had a liability for not responsding to calls. Werz may be more help for Ohio, but I believe police/dispatchers can't successfully get sued for how they handle something. However, I know cases in other states where they have successfully been sued for not responding and not being busy.

Now, how I envision the call going after the call is received and the officer finds the subject...

OFFICER: "Hello sir, how are you today?"
MWAG: "I'm good. What seems to be the problem?"
OFFICER: "Well, we received a call of a man with a gun and I'm just out investigating to make sure it's nothing that's going to go bad."
MWAG: "Cool, well, I'm just out for a stroll and like to have my own protection with me."
OFFICEr: "Alright Sir, well, you have a good day."

Not much too it, but for one to play nice, both need to play nice. I can play hardball with the best.
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by JustaShooter »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote: We want:
"Hello, sir. We got a call about a man with a gun."

"Yes, officer. That was probably me since I have a rifle slung over my shoulder."

"Have you committed any crimes with that?"

"No."

"Have you pointed it at anyone or fired it within city limits?"

"No."

"Okay. Have a nice day."
JediSkipdogg wrote:how I envision the call going after the call is received and the officer finds the subject...

OFFICER: "Hello sir, how are you today?"
MWAG: "I'm good. What seems to be the problem?"
OFFICER: "Well, we received a call of a man with a gun and I'm just out investigating to make sure it's nothing that's going to go bad."
MWAG: "Cool, well, I'm just out for a stroll and like to have my own protection with me."
OFFICEr: "Alright Sir, well, you have a good day."
I agree the police should respond, but why does there need to be any interaction at all between the police and the MWAG if the MWAG isn't doing anything wrong and there is no evidence he has? Wouldn't it be preferable for the police to roll up, observe, and make a determination of whether or not further action was needed based on the circumstances and actions of the MWAG? If it is just someone OCing on a walk, then roll up, make that determination, report back to dispatch and then on to the next call. No? What am I missing?
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by andyr70 »

This reply will certainly not address everyone's comments, but maybe a few. Try looking at it from a LEO's point of view. First the dispatcher gets a call about a man with a gun, tries to get information...but can't because the caller (who obviously doesn't know open carry is legal in the first place) cannot give anything other than, "they're walking down the street and they have a gun". So, the dispatcher, having very little info, gives it out to the officers. They don't know what's going on and certainly do not want anything bad to happen and have that be on their shoulders (in the job aspect and conscious aspect).

Now to the officer's POV. They're dispatched to a call of a man with a gun and told that was all the info the caller gave. They respond knowing next to nothing... and they're the one's putting their lives at risk everyday (just important to remember our mindset and why so cautious).

I guess what I am trying to get at is that it's not really the police's fault. They have to do their jobs, and if someone calls, they have to go and make sure everything is okay. Along with that, when they do go they feel a lotttt better when they can ID the person and make sure all is well (speaking from experience). It irritates me when people try to get the police to force ID of a person. They aren't interested in infringing your rights (most cops at least), they just want to keep the public safe.
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

JustaShooter wrote:
I agree the police should respond, but why does there need to be any interaction at all between the police and the MWAG if the MWAG isn't doing anything wrong and there is no evidence he has? Wouldn't it be preferable for the police to roll up, observe, and make a determination of whether or not further action was needed based on the circumstances and actions of the MWAG? If it is just someone OCing on a walk, then roll up, make that determination, report back to dispatch and then on to the next call. No? What am I missing?
Okay.

Officer rolls up to the MWAG:

"Hello, sir. We got a call about a man with a gun."

"The voices said you would be here soon."

You see, bad guys and crazy people can open carry, too.
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

The last time I looked into billboard advertising, the average cost was $1500 to create the ad, and $1500/month for 6 months.

I love the idea of advertising open carry, but the open carry issue is far too complex to do it justice on a billboard.

As soon as you tell a newbie on this forum that "open carry is legal", there are a dozen follow-up posts clarifying what, where and by who.

"Open carrying is not a crime."

...Unless you are not allowed to have a gun.
...Unless you are in a car.
...Unless you enter a building with a "no guns" sign.
...Unless you are within 1000 feet of a school.
...

And so on.
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by JustaShooter »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:
I agree the police should respond, but why does there need to be any interaction at all between the police and the MWAG if the MWAG isn't doing anything wrong and there is no evidence he has? Wouldn't it be preferable for the police to roll up, observe, and make a determination of whether or not further action was needed based on the circumstances and actions of the MWAG? If it is just someone OCing on a walk, then roll up, make that determination, report back to dispatch and then on to the next call. No? What am I missing?
Okay.

Officer rolls up to the MWAG:

"Hello, sir. We got a call about a man with a gun."

"The voices said you would be here soon."

You see, bad guys and crazy people can open carry, too.
Makes sense, hadn't thought about the crazy people aspect. Not sure how the bad guys aspect figures in - how do you tell a GGWAG from a BGWAG other than by their actions - but that's OK. :wink:
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

JustaShooter wrote:Makes sense, hadn't thought about the crazy people aspect. Not sure how the bad guys aspect figures in - how do you tell a GGWAG from a BGWAG other than by their actions - but that's OK. :wink:
We leave it up to the LEO to tell the good guy from the bad guy.
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

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MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
JustaShooter wrote:Makes sense, hadn't thought about the crazy people aspect. Not sure how the bad guys aspect figures in - how do you tell a GGWAG from a BGWAG other than by their actions - but that's OK. :wink:
We leave it up to the LEO to tell the good guy from the bad guy.
You are placing more faith in the LEO than I would. They don't exactly have the best track record in categorizing folks as good guys, seems like far too many get put in the bad guy category that shouldn't be. They often default to making the determination of bad guy instead of defaulting to good guy.
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by carmen fovozzo »

Not that it is much comfort to those that have a situation like this.....But if you take the few in Ohio that happen every day and multiply that by 50 States the number is so small compared to all LE stops in this country....Majority are positive.
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

carmen fovozzo wrote:Not that it is much comfort to those that have a situation like this.....But if you take the few in Ohio that happen every day and multiply that by 50 States the number is so small compared to all LE stops in this country....Majority are positive.
Absolutely. It's just that videos of uneventful police stops aren't worth the time to upload to Youtube. :P
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Re: Central Ohio Police Adapting To 'Baiting' Tactics By The

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

JustaShooter wrote:
MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
We leave it up to the LEO to tell the good guy from the bad guy.
You are placing more faith in the LEO than I would. They don't exactly have the best track record in categorizing folks as good guys, seems like far too many get put in the bad guy category that shouldn't be. They often default to making the determination of bad guy instead of defaulting to good guy.
I do have faith in the police. The overwhelming majority of LEO's, IMHO, are good people. Seems like far too many get put in the bad cop category that shouldn't be. :P

Having said that, my faith only extends to what I expect of the police. I do not expect them to have psychic powers. They cannot foretell who is and is not a bad guy. They cannot guess when a good guy will turn into a bad guy. They cannot be everywhere all the time.

What they can do is try to start a consensual encounter and see how the OC'er responds and reacts. They can then use their best judgment, based on the training they've received, as well as experience, in determining how to proceed.

Hopefully, their training will tell them when they CANNOT PUSH THE ISSUE FURTHER without seizing and detaining the OC'er. Carrying a firearm is not illegal and therefore should not be used as RAS for a seizure. That's where the LEO's need educated.
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