"Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by Grumpyolddog »

If I'm sitting in a Starbucks or Dunkin' Donuts or any restaurant and I see an individual approaching the establishment with a shotgun, AR-15 or any long rifle my mind is going to start thinking a.) Should I start looking for an escape route or b.) Do I need to think about drawing my concealed weapon before this yahoo starts shooting the place up. I don't know he's making a "statement". My first thought is that he's a threat. If these open carry nuts keep it up it's only a matter of time before someone carrying concealed shoots one of them.
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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by BobK »

Grumpyolddog wrote: If these open carry nuts keep it up it's only a matter of time before someone carrying concealed shoots one of them.
It is possible that scenario could happen.

If it does, I feel bad for the concealed carrier because -- absent other factors -- just open carrying does not justify the use of deadly force and the concealed carrier shooter could (and should) be arrested and charged. A stupid way for a person to ruin their life.
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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by soberbiker »

I think body language becomes very important in that situation. A rifle slung over the shoulder safely while standing in line isn't going to look too threatening. Now if the person has it slung in front and doesn't take off his sunglasses and or hat while walking in and heads in an unusual direction upon entry. Then I'm getting worried.
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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

I don't care HOW it's slung, as long as it's slung.

It's not my place to restrict his choices. If I'm worried about the person, then it is incumbent upon ME to keep an eye on him.

If so many people think open carriers are doing it for the attention, why not give it to them?

Walk up to the person and ask them not 'why' they are open carrying, but 'what'? Even if you are a weapons expert, ask the open carrier about their firearm(s). Ooh and ahh over it. Don't even bring up the fact that they are open carrying. Make the open carry part a non-event.
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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by WestonDon »

soberbiker wrote:I think body language becomes very important in that situation. A rifle slung over the shoulder safely while standing in line isn't going to look too threatening. Now if the person has it slung in front and doesn't take off his sunglasses and or hat while walking in and heads in an unusual direction upon entry. Then I'm getting worried.
This makes sense. We should not be afraid to "profile" someone, anyone. I am not going on the offensive but my state of readiness may increase or decrease based on the totality of the circumstances.
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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by WestonDon »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:I don't care HOW it's slung, as long as it's slung.

It's not my place to restrict his choices. If I'm worried about the person, then it is incumbent upon ME to keep an eye on him.

If so many people think open carriers are doing it for the attention, why not give it to them?

Walk up to the person and ask them not 'why' they are open carrying, but 'what'? Even if you are a weapons expert, ask the open carrier about their firearm(s). Ooh and ahh over it. Don't even bring up the fact that they are open carrying. Make the open carry part a non-event.

This tactic may actually be effective on someone seeking confrontation. Nothing irritates somebody trying to pick a fight more than friendliness.
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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by TunnelRat »

WestonDon wrote:This tactic may actually be effective on someone seeking confrontation. Nothing irritates somebody trying to pick a fight more than friendliness.
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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by JediSkipdogg »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:I don't care HOW it's slung, as long as it's slung.

It's not my place to restrict his choices. If I'm worried about the person, then it is incumbent upon ME to keep an eye on him.

If so many people think open carriers are doing it for the attention, why not give it to them?

Walk up to the person and ask them not 'why' they are open carrying, but 'what'? Even if you are a weapons expert, ask the open carrier about their firearm(s). Ooh and ahh over it. Don't even bring up the fact that they are open carrying. Make the open carry part a non-event.
Heres the problem I have with long guns. Yes, I don't care how it's slung, but at some point you are going to touch that rifle to adjust it. If you are in a UDF and see someone at the counter put their hand on their holstered handgun what are you going to think? Now apply the same to a rifle?
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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

I've adjusted my holstered handgun forward on my belt so I could reach my wallet.

I don't understand what you getting at.

If it ain't pointed at you, it ain't a crime.


And BB62, I used "ain't" on purpose.
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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by Tweed Ring »

WestonDon wrote:
soberbiker wrote:I think body language becomes very important in that situation. A rifle slung over the shoulder safely while standing in line isn't going to look too threatening. Now if the person has it slung in front and doesn't take off his sunglasses and or hat while walking in and heads in an unusual direction upon entry. Then I'm getting worried.
This makes sense. We should not be afraid to "profile" someone, anyone. I am not going on the offensive but my state of readiness may increase or decrease based on the totality of the circumstances.
I always profile: people; places; and, situations. It's simply about my safety and survival. I know the time to leave is before something bad happens, and I leave. I don't care who is offended.

Read Gavin de Beker's book, The Gift of Fear. He relates stories of a number of victims who failed to profile. Some of them survived, albeit scared for life. Some of them died, needlessly.

Many years ago, I was involved in a horrible situation, because I did not have the sense to profile and trust my gut instinct. That lesson has stayed with me for decades. It has kept me from being hurt and worse.

Always trust that gut instinct. Always.
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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by Glock513 »

The idiot in the Starbucks photo was HOLDING his shotgun in his hands! :mrgreen: . Threat? What if touches the trigger and accidentally blows someone's head off, then it's too late. If I see someone open carrying a long gun, and we're not on base, at a shooting range, skeet shooting competition, etc etc, I'd consider them a potential threat. LEO's don't even open carry long guns for no "valid" reason.
soberbiker wrote:I think body language becomes very important in that situation. A rifle slung over the shoulder safely while standing in line isn't going to look too threatening. Now if the person has it slung in front and doesn't take off his sunglasses and or hat while walking in and heads in an unusual direction upon entry. Then I'm getting worried.
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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by Brian D. »

Glock513 wrote:The idiot in the Starbucks photo was HOLDING his shotgun in his hands! :mrgreen: . Threat? What if touches the trigger and accidentally blows someone's head off, then it's too late. If I see someone open carrying a long gun, and we're not on base, at a shooting range, skeet shooting competition, etc etc, I'd consider them a potential threat. LEO's don't even open carry long guns for no "valid" reason.
Just for the sake of clarity, not to negate your point, Joe: As memory serves that rather famous Starbucks photo was taken in the Middle East somewhere, not the U.S.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by DontTreadOnMe »

Brian D. wrote:Just for the sake of clarity, not to negate your point, Joe: As memory serves that rather famous Starbucks photo was taken in the Middle East somewhere, not the U.S.
Don't know if that's the one he was thinking of or not, but there are plenty of pics of LG OC'ers holding their rifles, having their hands on or near the grip and fingers very near the triggers, etc. I won't post many pics because I could be here all day but here's the best of the best ... several unsecured long guns within easy reach of other customers. For bonus stupid points the selector on the AR at the far left is set to the fire position.

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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by Bama.45 »

DontTreadOnMe wrote:
Brian D. wrote:Just for the sake of clarity, not to negate your point, Joe: As memory serves that rather famous Starbucks photo was taken in the Middle East somewhere, not the U.S.
Don't know if that's the one he was thinking of or not, but there are plenty of pics of LG OC'ers holding their rifles, having their hands on or near the grip and fingers very near the triggers, etc. I won't post many pics because I could be here all day but here's the best of the best ... several unsecured long guns within easy reach of other customers. For bonus stupid points the selector on the AR at the far left is set to the fire position.

http://lagniappeslair.blogspot.com/2014 ... -they.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Image

And if the shotgun is chambered, those are known for discharging if they hit the floor.
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Re: "Thanks Idiots" re: Starbucks

Post by Brian D. »

Bama.45 wrote:And if the shotgun is chambered, those are known for discharging if they hit the floor.
That is also possible with some rifles. Saw it done for demonstration purposes with an AR-15 many years ago at a firearms training class. Took a firm whack on the back of the butt stock, but it did go 'click' on the second or third try.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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