Youngstown Ohio Open Carry Arrest (CCW of Pocket Knife)

[Pecker]

Here's a link to youtube video of the incident before the police confiscate the OCers phone and shut it off.


http://youtu.be/lOSocHUR2IE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


Link to blotter article

http://www.vindy.com/news/2012/sep/02/e ... ng/?mobile" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

YOUNGSTOWN

Police arrested Michael Porschien, 22, of Ohio Avenue at 10:50 p.m. Thursday at Madison and Michigan avenues on the North Side on a misdemeanor charge of carrying a concealed weapon for purportedly having a concealed knife.

Police were on patrol when they saw Porschien walking on the north side of Madison Avenue with a large handgun in a holster on his left hip.

An officer approached Porschien and asked him why he was carrying a firearm, and Porschien said he was “open carrying,” adding that the reason was because “this is a dangerous town.”

For safety, officers placed the loaded firearm in a police cruiser while they patted Porschien down and found a concealed knife clipped to his belt and covered by his T-shirt.

[TSiWRX]

Ohio's knife laws are a mess.

[AndMetal]

That sure escalated quickly.

[Tourist]

RAS for the search?

[Pecker]

Should have stated, saw this thread going on over at Opencarry.org forum for Ohio. Interesting situation regarding a college student.

[Bianchi?]

RAS for the search?

Officer safety?

[McM]

So, cops can 'confiscate' your phone and turn it off? Interesting.

[Cruiser]

That sure escalated quickly.

I'd say! Confiscated his phone! Was that the last arriving officer that did that? Someone did not want to be recorded! Can't wait to hear more about this.

[JediSkipdogg]

Ohio's knife laws are a mess.

They are? I didn't realize there were any knife laws besides the concealed weapon part and unfortunately, if the knife is a weapon or tool is up to the officer.

[TSiWRX]

Ohio's knife laws are a mess.

They are? I didn't realize there were any knife laws besides the concealed weapon part and unfortunately, if the knife is a weapon or tool is up to the officer.

It's a mess because there's local-level ordinances.

Cleveland Heights, for example:

CLEVELAND HEIGHTS Municipal Code updated 9/2007

549.09 CARRYING CERTAIN WEAPONS PROHIBITED.

(a) No person shall carry on or about his person any weapon known or designated as brass knuckles, billy, slingshot, sandbag, blackjack or other weapon of similar character, or any knife fitted with a mechanical device for automatic release of the blade, opening the knife and locking the knife in the open position, commonly known as a switch or automatic spring knife, or any knife having a blade two and one-half inches in length or longer, or any straight edge razor, or any karate sticks by whatever name known.

(b) This section does not apply to any such weapons designated for use by officers of the law, or when engaged in lawful business or pursuit justifying possession of such weapon.

^ Reading that, it doesn't matter if I carry the knife for defensive purposes or as a "tool." It simply says "knife."

At 2 and 1/2 inches or under, that's not a lot of room to play with.

And like you said, there's also a lot riding on how the officer interprets things, too.

Hence, "mess."


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Edit: Ah! I knew we (as in all of us ) had a conversation like this, before:

http://www.ohioccwforums.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=52259" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;



And honestly, I don't like this any more than any of the rest of you, but I think that Mr. Porschien went into this without having fully assessed the ramifications of him having had a knife in his pocket.

[fisher]

Seems he consented to the seizure of his firearm. I hope he didn't consent to the search which turned up the knife.
Everything was going fine until that cop lost his cool and started acting belligerently. He was giving ID, answering questions, not asking them a bunch of stuff, not confusing them with references to fourth amendment case law, then it became something it should not have been. I don't see this going very far if he did not consent.

[Whirlwind06]

I liked the "do you have proof of ownership of that handgun?" question.
Thought the guy handled himself very well.

[SC-JG]

It's a mess because there's local-level ordinances.

How is the average person supposed to really know all of these local ordinances without sitting down and going through all of them for each and every municipality we might go through? That is completely unrealistic. In just on hour of freeway travel in Northern Ohio could easily involve traveling through 10 or more cities.

[TSiWRX]

^ That's exactly what I mean.

I collected knives up until about 2004. I still have a few nice pieces in my small collection.

I like to carry some of them, from time-to-time.

But forgetting even that, I'm one of those who carries knives as a box/envelope cutting tool (some kind of multi-tool or another, plus my Ti Nemesis Card) as well as defensive tools (Spyderco Lum Titanium Tanto or Benchmade AFCK, plus a Spyderco Terzuola Starmate and a Strider/FS HAK). That's my true-EDC (so you can guess that I read that thread about the guy in N.Olmstead with a bit of interest, right?). And you know what? For as much as I'd hate to have to use my gun in self-defense, I'd really hate to have to use a knife in self-defense...for more than one reason. Get one of the Raven Concealment guys to tell you his tale, and you'll see why.

This is why my responses in this thread have all had <----

[sodbuster95]

RAS for the search?

Officer safety?

Not unless there was RAS for the underlying stop. In this case, the guy should argue that since there was no RAS for the initial stop, the subsequent search was unlawful and the knife inadmissible.

Of course, assuming the knife was in excess of the 2.5 inch municipal ordinance and as that is only a misdemeanor, it's far more likely he'll plead out, pay a fine, and walk away lighter some money and missing a knife.