Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

Moderators: Coordinators, Moderators

Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby BriKuz » Mon Sep 10, 2012 12:07 pm

I have posted on some of the other boards, but I wanted to get my story out here as well... Sunday, 9 Sep, my wife, daughter and I were prevented from entering the Wayne County Fair... this fairground is county owned in the majority (i noticed at least one small parcel titled to Wayne Cty Ag soc) i don't have full recording of the encounter, but here's what I could find:

Audio:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B__tjI ... 2lxdU11cEU

Video:
https://docs.google.com/open?id=0B__tjI ... 0M0SENBY0k

I'm sorry we didn't get more, i let the baby girl play with my recorder and she shut it off...

Any thoughts or inputs on how to proceed would be greatly appreciated!
BriKuz
 
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:59 pm
Location: Ashland County, OH

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby dynamike » Mon Sep 10, 2012 1:44 pm

Your civil rights have not bee violated. They warned you not to come in. Grow some {deleted-sabalo} and end up in the back of car to have a civil rights claim.

There is a violation of ORC 9.68. I suggest you call Derek DeBrosse (http://debrosselaw.com/).
Mike

I am an engineering statistician, US Submarine Veteran, avid motorcyclist, and staunch supporter of Liberty.

Ohio Director Students for Concealed Carry
User avatar
dynamike
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:23 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby BB62 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:27 pm

dynamike wrote:Your civil rights have not bee violated. They warned you not to come in. Grow some {deleted-sabalo} and end up in the back of car to have a civil rights claim.

There is a violation of ORC 9.68. I suggest you call Derek DeBrosse (http://debrosselaw.com/).

Now, now, now. There are a number of steps one can take prior to assessing one's {deleted-sabalo} size, and I think the OP is well on his way to doing so.

Besides, lawyers cost money! :shock:
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

Got Freedom?

Accountant, Computer & Management Consultant
Scuba Diver, NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor
User avatar
BB62
 
Posts: 2512
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:57 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby pirateguy191 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 3:38 pm

I know one thing, my neck hurts from the video.
"In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem." - Ronald Reagan

"When democracy turns to tyranny, the armed citizen still gets to vote." ~ Mike Vanderboegh

NRA member, NRA basic pistol instructor, DBACB
User avatar
pirateguy191
 
Posts: 10667
Joined: Sat Feb 14, 2009 12:06 pm
Location: 44146

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby Werz » Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:20 pm

dynamike wrote:I suggest you call Derek DeBrosse (http://debrosselaw.com/).

More direct remedies are in process ... ones which do not require a retainer.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
User avatar
Werz
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 5498
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:37 am

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby dynamike » Mon Sep 10, 2012 7:58 pm

BB62 wrote:
dynamike wrote:Your civil rights have not bee violated. They warned you not to come in. Grow some {deleted-sabalo} and end up in the back of car to have a civil rights claim.

There is a violation of ORC 9.68. I suggest you call Derek DeBrosse (http://debrosselaw.com/).

Now, now, now. There are a number of steps one can take prior to assessing one's {deleted-sabalo} size, and I think the OP is well on his way to doing so.

Besides, lawyers cost money! :shock:


You're right. That was a tad harsh.

Werz wrote:
dynamike wrote:I suggest you call Derek DeBrosse (http://debrosselaw.com/).

More direct remedies are in process ... ones which do not require a retainer.


Let's hope they work.

Don't forget that ORC 9.68 contains a provision where the plaintiff can recover reasonable attorney fees.
Mike

I am an engineering statistician, US Submarine Veteran, avid motorcyclist, and staunch supporter of Liberty.

Ohio Director Students for Concealed Carry
User avatar
dynamike
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:23 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby BB62 » Mon Sep 10, 2012 8:56 pm

dynamike wrote:Let's hope they work...

Check in tomorrow:
viewtopic.php?f=21&t=64264&p=4126686#p4126686
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

Got Freedom?

Accountant, Computer & Management Consultant
Scuba Diver, NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor
User avatar
BB62
 
Posts: 2512
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:57 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby Werz » Tue Sep 11, 2012 12:31 am

dynamike wrote:
Werz wrote:
dynamike wrote:I suggest you call Derek DeBrosse (http://debrosselaw.com/).

More direct remedies are in process ... ones which do not require a retainer.

Let's hope they work.

Don't forget that ORC 9.68 contains a provision where the plaintiff can recover reasonable attorney fees.

I see nothing on Mr. Debrosse's website which indicates that he works without a retainer, nor do I see anything about contingency fee agreements for RC 9.68 cases.

The matter has already been resolved. Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
User avatar
Werz
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 5498
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:37 am

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby BriKuz » Tue Sep 11, 2012 2:21 pm

pirateguy191 wrote:I know one thing, my neck hurts from the video.


:oops: I already gave my wife crap about that... please remember, that was HER first encounter with ANYONE about carrying... she was more nervous than I was! 8)

Also, I think that Werz was referring to us all trying to fix the situation expeditiously... Granted, had I slightly higher [deleted by me to save the mod the trouble 8) ] size, I would got put in the car Sunday afternoon... but my decision was to save my wife and daughter that sight, nevermind what lawsuit could have been filed later... I think it DOES take cojones to NOT walk into their little game, and instead hit them from another angle... Also, the last bar fight I was in, my wife jumped on the back of a man 3 times her size and started wailing on his head and neck... I did NOT want to risk THAT happening to Deputies!!!! (For my wife's sake, I mean) Now that we brief on an encounter every day or two, we are starting to build an instinctive response that does NOT involve assaulting an LEO!!! :wink:
BriKuz
 
Posts: 696
Joined: Sun Sep 09, 2012 4:59 pm
Location: Ashland County, OH

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby BB62 » Tue Sep 11, 2012 5:06 pm

BriKuz wrote:...... but my decision was to save my wife and daughter that sight, nevermind what lawsuit could have been filed later... I think it DOES take cojones to NOT walk into their little game, and instead hit them from another angle..
(my emphasis)
You're absolutely correct. And be assured, you took the smart path. There's a time for direct action, and a time for indirect action.

Now, stick around, learn, and when you feel you are able, help others in their "encounters".
Yes, I do believe in open carry. An openly armed man is clear in his intentions. Concealed carriers are sneaks and skulkers and elitist, boot licking, political contribution making, running dog lackies of The Man. <wink> (thx grumpycoconut - OpenCarry.org)

Got Freedom?

Accountant, Computer & Management Consultant
Scuba Diver, NRA Life Member, NRA Instructor
User avatar
BB62
 
Posts: 2512
Joined: Thu Jul 07, 2005 12:57 pm
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby MyWifeSaidYes » Tue Sep 11, 2012 7:35 pm

BriKuz is just a guy who open carried to a fair along with his wife and kids.

Dynamike is (now) the state leader of a national organization, an organization whose state chapter he created and led, a chapter which has officially announced that they are filing a lawsuit against a MAJOR state university.

Dynamike's advice was good, but overkill for the particular situation.

BriKuz was fortunate to have a county prosecutor who would listen. The signs were taken down.

Hooray!
MyWifeSaidYes
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 5397
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby dynamike » Wed Sep 12, 2012 9:54 am

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:BriKuz is just a guy who open carried to a fair along with his wife and kids.

Dynamike is (now) the state leader of a national organization, an organization whose state chapter he created and led, a chapter which has officially announced that they are filing a lawsuit against a MAJOR state university.

Dynamike's advice was good, but overkill for the particular situation.

BriKuz was fortunate to have a county prosecutor who would listen. The signs were taken down.

Hooray!


I guess I didn't fully explain myself in my first or second reply.

The police did not violate his civil rights, IMO. They told him guns were not allowed and allowed him to make his own choice. I do not remember seeing them block his entry or otherwise use force to keep him from entering or using force to eject him. THAT'S when it could become a civil rights issue. And even then, carry of a firearm outside one's home has not been defined by any court or law as a civil right.

I think it is, and would love to find out otherwise. What I was getting at is that sometimes, we blow stuff up into something it's not. Case in point is taking my advice to contact an attorney removes the responsibility to handle the issue at the lowest level.

Our case against OSU is a good indication of how we (Students fro Concealed Carry) and I think the issue should be handled. We have appealed to OSU to change its policies that violate ORC 9.68. I personally appealed to them in July of 2010. Yet, they refuse to recognize the wishes of the people Ohio. We are now in the process of suing

An attorney costs money. Even if an attorney thinks the case is a win and decides to take while planning to recoup fees after the fact, standard practice dictates a retainer to establish the client/attorney relationship. You may be able to recoup court fees on the back end, but will have to pay them up front.

The short of it is that I agree with Werz's statements. I just failed to express them.
Mike

I am an engineering statistician, US Submarine Veteran, avid motorcyclist, and staunch supporter of Liberty.

Ohio Director Students for Concealed Carry
User avatar
dynamike
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 772
Joined: Wed Jul 07, 2010 8:23 am
Location: Columbus, Ohio

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby Rhino » Wed Sep 12, 2012 11:09 am

Montgomery County fairgrounds are posted too. I worked there during the county fair a couple of weeks ago. I never even noticed the signs. Somebody else told me about them. I was carrying at the time. I told the person that informed me about the signs that they weren't legal. He said they were because the fairground was owned by a private association, the Montgomery County Agricultural Society. So I called up the Montgomery county property records web site. It's owned by the Montgomery County Agricultural Society alright, but the land use description says, "E - EXEMPT PROPERTY OWNED BY COUNTIES". There's actually more than one parcel. Some of the smaller ones belong to Metroparks. It's not privately owned. They're in violation of ORC 9.68. I kept carrying. The guy I was talking to works in the county juvenile detention center and knows the cops very well. He said they'd arrest someone if they knew they were carrying, and they don't give a crap about ORC 9.68 or about who lost a lawsuit before. They fully intend to ban guns until they lose a lawsuit themselves.
No trees were harmed in the transmission of this message. However, a rather large number of electrons were temporarily inconvenienced.

The Constitution shall never be construed … to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.
-- Samuel Adams

Condensed Guide to Ohio Concealed Carry Laws
User avatar
Rhino
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 2571
Joined: Thu Jul 20, 2006 2:10 pm
Location: Greene County

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby Werz » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:15 pm

Rhino wrote:Montgomery County fairgrounds are posted too. I worked there during the county fair a couple of weeks ago. I never even noticed the signs. Somebody else told me about them. I was carrying at the time. I told the person that informed me about the signs that they weren't legal. He said they were because the fairground was owned by a private association, the Montgomery County Agricultural Society. So I called up the Montgomery county property records web site. It's owned by the Montgomery County Agricultural Society alright, but the land use description says, "E - EXEMPT PROPERTY OWNED BY COUNTIES". There's actually more than one parcel. Some of the smaller ones belong to Metroparks. It's not privately owned. They're in violation of ORC 9.68. I kept carrying. The guy I was talking to works in the county juvenile detention center and knows the cops very well. He said they'd arrest someone if they knew they were carrying, and they don't give a crap about ORC 9.68 or about who lost a lawsuit before. They fully intend to ban guns until they lose a lawsuit themselves.

I may produce an all-purpose legal memorandum which clearly establishes that county agricultural societies are not private entities for the purpose of firearms prohibitions. I was going to do one for the benefit of the Wayne County Fair Board, but they responded so immediately to the advice in the prosecuting attorney's email that it was not necessary. However, it may be beneficial to get the prevailing law out to all the counties.

It probably won't do much good this year, and I don't have the time right now, anyway, but it's something which could be available for next year.
"An armed society is a polite society. Manners are good when one may have to back up his acts with his life."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, Beyond This Horizon
"Remember that protecting our gun rights still boils down to keeping a majority in the electorate, and that our daily activities can have the impact of being ambassadors for the gun culture ..."
-- BobK
Open carry is a First Amendment exercise.
User avatar
Werz
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 5498
Joined: Sun Aug 16, 2009 2:37 am

Re: Wayne County Fair (on county owned land) Posted...

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Wed Sep 12, 2012 12:19 pm

dynamike wrote:The police did not violate his civil rights, IMO. They told him guns were not allowed and allowed him to make his own choice.


I disagree because even if they didn't say "we'll arrest you if you enter" that's the obvious implied threat. Freedom of Association is a fundamental right protected by the First Amendment (as has been held by the Supreme Court). When armed police officers tell you you aren't allowed somewhere that you are in fact legally allowed to be, they've violated your fundamental right to associate.
User avatar
DontTreadOnMe
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
 
Posts: 1611
Joined: Wed May 02, 2012 11:11 am
Location: SW Ohio

Next

Return to Ohio Open Carry Discussions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest