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[Chuck]

Being new to this "activism" stuff and not wanting to screw anything up myself, I find charben's style to my liking.
But I'm learning....

Me to buddy but some times I get a little red when stuff that should be simple turns hard.

Lead,,,, don't push.
Pushing makes people push back.

That said, I'll OC with you anywhere, Jamie

[Brian D.]

A whole bunch of us share your frustration in these matters, jamie, that much is certain. Many of you have read my quote from an old boss who said: "If you don't like the music, talk to the organ grinder NOT the {insert obscenity} monkey!"

While that has served as great advice--and usually makes me smile rather than get mad at said "monkey(s)" along the way up the chain--it has its limits. Especially if you get to the "organ grinder" and at least initially find him/her to be no more intelligent or useful than those lower-order primates.

Couple of different times dealing with local CPZ's and the like my communications with higher-ups were VERY frustrating, and brought out my less cordial side. It happens.

[charben]

I get a little red when stuff that should be simple turns hard.

Creating change is never simple...no matter how "right" the change may be. People tend to like status quo...and that includes politicians and bureaucrats.

Think about this analogy: If someone is new to martial arts and wishes to increase range of motion in his leg, how does he do it? He stretches just to the point of pain and backs off. Then stretches a little bit further. Then a little bit further. Until after gradual progression, the desired outcome is achieved.

Of course, that person can get immediate increase by having someone yank the leg over his head in one, abrupt motion. But that isn't going to create a very favorable reaction!

[charben]

and brought out my less cordial side. It happens.

You have a LESS cordial side?

[Brian D.]

and brought out my less cordial side. It happens.

You have a LESS cordial side?

Yeah...what's it to YOU, anyhow?

[jmwildenthal]

4) If someone would sue the Parks, the Parks would just implement a stalling tactic again citing the pending Cleveland case (of which Franklin County is a party). This would cost the Plaintiff money. It would also cost the Respondent (the Parks) money but they are supported by Franklin County. Who is going to have deeper pockets? It is really doubtful any court would rule on a lawsuit like this until Cleveland is resolved.

I would think no suit is necessary. Just OC to Highbanks. Do you really think Yost is going to back Metroparks? Do you think the Delaware SO is going to go against Yost?

So, if nobody objects, I will continue to work this situation the best that I know how. I have got to look at the big picture...the long-term outcomes that can be affected by what we do today. That may mean that we get results slower than some may like, but what is better? Speed or accuracy?

You left out "inexpensive".

PITP is still two weeks off...

[charben]

4) If someone would sue the Parks, the Parks would just implement a stalling tactic again citing the pending Cleveland case (of which Franklin County is a party). This would cost the Plaintiff money. It would also cost the Respondent (the Parks) money but they are supported by Franklin County. Who is going to have deeper pockets? It is really doubtful any court would rule on a lawsuit like this until Cleveland is resolved.

I would think no suit is necessary. Just OC to Highbanks. Do you really think Yost is going to back Metroparks? Do you think the Delaware SO is going to go against Yost?

But that doesn't solve the problem, does it?

[jmwildenthal]

4) If someone would sue the Parks, the Parks would just implement a stalling tactic again citing the pending Cleveland case (of which Franklin County is a party). This would cost the Plaintiff money. It would also cost the Respondent (the Parks) money but they are supported by Franklin County. Who is going to have deeper pockets? It is really doubtful any court would rule on a lawsuit like this until Cleveland is resolved.

I would think no suit is necessary. Just OC to Highbanks. Do you really think Yost is going to back Metroparks? Do you think the Delaware SO is going to go against Yost?

But that doesn't solve the problem, does it?

There are two aspects to the problem. One is the law. The other is how it is being upheld. "You can beat the rap, but not the ride" sort of thing.

I can imagine Metro stating we are trespassing by breaking their rules. I can see Yost saying that is invalid. At that point the Delaware SO will know what they should and should not enforce. The rule stands, but is unenforced in Delaware. As Metroparks has property in Franklin and other counties, it is certainly an incomplete solution.

If Yost is going to be at the PITP, we should invite him to Highbanks as well.

[SarTec]

I live about a mile from Darby Metro and would be up for any Metro Park picnics. Keep in mind Franklin Co Sherrif Jim Karnes lives about 300 yds from DC Metro. Not sure of his stance on things but I do know he has a part time greenhouse gig on the side selling vegetables right in his front yard. He lives right next door to the Oak Grove tavern which holds a bikers night every sunday night and several HUGE parties every year. I've never seen a cruiser at the bar yet so Karnes must be a pretty cool/tolerable guy. I said that to say this, maybe have a DC Metro picnic and stop by his place to buy some fresh veggies for the burgers and snacks. Ya never know he might be willing to stop by and share a view on the Buckeye Sherrifs opposition to SB239 and his view as well. Just a thought.

[jamie9mm]

I live about a mile from Darby Metro and would be up for any Metro Park picnics. Keep in mind Franklin Co Sherrif Jim Karnes lives about 300 yds from DC Metro. Not sure of his stance on things but I do know he has a part time greenhouse gig on the side selling vegetables right in his front yard. He lives right next door to the Oak Grove tavern which holds a bikers night every sunday night and several HUGE parties every year. I've never seen a cruiser at the bar yet so Karnes must be a pretty cool/tolerable guy. I said that to say this, maybe have a DC Metro picnic and stop by his place to buy some fresh veggies for the burgers and snacks. Ya never know he might be willing to stop by and share a view on the Buckeye Sherrifs opposition to SB239 and his view as well. Just a thought.

Jim Karnes from what I've seen is pretty anti. IIRC the only reason FCSO CHL processing is done so fast is because they got sued. Not to mention Jimmy has never signed not one SBR stamp that I know of. I like your idea about hoping to get to talk with Karns at his veggie stand but I've never seen him in person work it and plus as I said I think he is anti.

If yost will be at PITP maybe with a little help I can get him to write a letter to Larry Peck?

[jamie9mm]

Charben, any reply from Larry Peck yet?

[jmwildenthal]

4) If someone would sue the Parks, the Parks would just implement a stalling tactic again citing the pending Cleveland case (of which Franklin County is a party). This would cost the Plaintiff money. It would also cost the Respondent (the Parks) money but they are supported by Franklin County. Who is going to have deeper pockets? It is really doubtful any court would rule on a lawsuit like this until Cleveland is resolved.

I would think no suit is necessary. Just OC to Highbanks. Do you really think Yost is going to back Metroparks? Do you think the Delaware SO is going to go against Yost?

But that doesn't solve the problem, does it?

Shall I plan on grilling burgers at Highbanks on Saturday evening? Or have you heard something back from them? They've had almost two weeks to respond to your contact. I know that's warp factor three for a small bureaucracy....

[jamie9mm]

Shall I plan on grilling burgers at Highbanks on Saturday evening? Or have you heard something back from them? They've had almost two weeks to respond to your contact. I know that's warp factor three for a small bureaucracy....

My wife just got a new job and I won't be able to make PITP. Her in session should be over around three pm. I think it would be cool to still get to hang out with a few of the guy's though so I'm for it. Oh ya I'll be OCing!

Any one else who want's to come is certainly invited. We can just hang out, cook out or do whatever so any one who has idea's or thoughts feel free to chime in.

[jamie9mm]

I have herd nothing back from anybody. I'm ready to put boots on the ground, any one who want's to join me you can chime in on this thread but I think I'll keep all details done through PM.

[Chuck]

I have an extra bag of charcoal