Open Carry with CCW

Open Carry is carrying a firearm unconcealed in Ohio. OC does not require a concealed handgun license, but the practice requires intimate knowledge of the law since there are places and situations where OC is prohibited but carrying concealed would be permitted. OC is also likely to attract attention. This forum is for discussion of OC, not for debating the pro's and con's or coordinating any type of protest events.

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HancockCountyHAl
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by HancockCountyHAl »

Thanks for clearing that up for me. Too bad we get faulty info from a minority of instructors.
HancockCountyHaL
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rDigital
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by rDigital »

mreising wrote:
charben wrote:
HancockCountyHAl wrote:Have you gotten the feeling that everything your instructor said may have been crap? And to top it off, you paid for it!
If this is an NRA certified instructor he should be reported and de-certfied.
Well, even if this instructor gave out bad information relative to the law, the NRA will not take any action against him because that content is not part of their class. The NRA does NOT certify "Ohio CHL Instructors." Rather, they certify "NRA Basic Pistol Course Instructors" and often recommend that the law part is handled by a different person (preferrably an attorney or LEO).
Thanks Chris, I was going to point that out also. Too many people think they are certified CCW instructors, and as you point out, that is not a certification available from the NRA.
I hope someday that OFCC acquires the authority to train CCW Instructors from start to finish with an Ohio specific instructor training program. After all, who knows more about CCW in Ohio than the people in this organization? 8)
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BobK
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by BobK »

rDigital wrote: After all, who knows more about CCW in Ohio than the people in this organization? 8)
Ha, ha, ha, the people over at BFA might have an opinion to offer.
I am a: NRA Life Member, Texas State Rifle Association Life Member, Texas Firearms Coalition Gold member, OFCC Patron Member, former JFPO member (pre-SAF).

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Stealie
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by Stealie »

Roger never said anything about O.C. being illegal after getting a CHL in our class. He covered the A.G's handbook very thoroughly in our class.
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Beezer
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by Beezer »

I have been using this website for awhile now to get more facts and great advice about being a chl holder. This is my first post.

A friend of mine recently attended Mr. Polk's class and we got into a debate. He was told by Mr. Polk in the class that you CAN get your CHL, in Ohio when you are 18 if you join the military. I told my buddy that the class I went to stated under no circumstance can you get it before you turn 21. HB450 states that you can now purchase a handgun at 18 if you are in the military but you can only carry it for military honors ONLY. It also says you cannot get you CCW until you turn 21. He is insisting that Mr. Polk told him that you can get you CHL at 18. I called several Sheriffs offices and even the Attorney General for clarification and they all said 21 ONLY for CHL.

I just don't want people leaving his classes with false information telling everyone to join the reserves so you can get your CHL at 18.

Great forums you have here. I will now slip back into the shadows.
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by jabeatty »

Beezer wrote:A friend of mine recently attended Mr. Polk's class and we got into a debate. He was told by Mr. Polk in the class that you CAN get your CHL, in Ohio when you are 18 if you join the military. I told my buddy that the class I went to stated under no circumstance can you get it before you turn 21. HB450 states that you can now purchase a handgun at 18 if you are in the military but you can only carry it for military honors ONLY. It also says you cannot get you CCW until you turn 21.
I agree with your basic premise, but believe that HB450 was written by childish trolls who didn't know the very law they set out to modify.

Seriously.

Sure, 2923.211 now states that an Ohio resident who is in the military who is at least 18 years old (but not yet 21) may purchase a handgun in the State of Ohio. Unfortunately, 2923.21 still very explicitly states that anyone who sells a handgun to that same person is guilty of a fifth-degree felony.
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Beezer
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by Beezer »

I do agree the Bill was written poorly. But that does not excuse an instructor of giving false information. I am not an instructor but I am more than capable of doing my own research and with everything I have read, you still cannot get the CHL until your 21st birthday. The instructor should know this!
Hask12
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by Hask12 »

Never ever has it been said in Roger Polk's class that open carry is illegal in the State of Ohio, and the reason I know this is because I have spoken to Roger personally regarding this matter. Please people when you attend a class pay attention. It's scary to think what other information is being misinterpreted. :roll:
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by willbird »

charben wrote:
HancockCountyHAl wrote:Have you gotten the feeling that everything your instructor said may have been crap? And to top it off, you paid for it!
If this is an NRA certified instructor he should be reported and de-certfied.
Well, even if this instructor gave out bad information relative to the law, the NRA will not take any action against him because that content is not part of their class. The NRA does NOT certify "Ohio CHL Instructors." Rather, they certify "NRA Basic Pistol Course Instructors" and often recommend that the law part is handled by a different person (preferrably an attorney or LEO).
Oh I think NRA might take some interest in a certified Instructor WRONGLY teaching Ohio law, and for that reason I would recommend that somebody that was in the class make a detailed written complaint to NRA.
Have a great day today unless you have made other plans :-).
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AlanM
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by AlanM »

willbird wrote: Oh I think NRA might take some interest in a certified Instructor WRONGLY teaching Ohio law, and for that reason I would recommend that somebody that was in the class make a detailed written complaint to NRA.
What the NRA would respond with is that NRA certification is ONLY for their curriculum. Ohio law is to be taught OUTSIDE of the 10 hour Basic Pistol Course as far as the NRA is concerned.

In other words, if you have problems with an instructor not teaching Ohio correctly, take it up with the instructor and or report him to the appropriate county sheriff(s). It is up to the sheriff's discretion to accept a particular instructor's training certification. That is, if they feel that a particular instructor is not providing proper training, they can and have not issued or have pulled CHL from that instructor.
AlanM
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by willbird »

AlanM wrote:
willbird wrote: Oh I think NRA might take some interest in a certified Instructor WRONGLY teaching Ohio law, and for that reason I would recommend that somebody that was in the class make a detailed written complaint to NRA.
What the NRA would respond with is that NRA certification is ONLY for their curriculum. Ohio law is to be taught OUTSIDE of the 10 hour Basic Pistol Course as far as the NRA is concerned.

In other words, if you have problems with an instructor not teaching Ohio correctly, take it up with the instructor and or report him to the appropriate county sheriff(s). It is up to the sheriff's discretion to accept a particular instructor's training certification. That is, if they feel that a particular instructor is not providing proper training, they can and have not issued or have pulled CHL from that instructor.
Well for one thing, the Sheriff would have to assert that the Instructors class did not meet the requirements, and would have to articulate WHY when appeals were file for non issue of CHL's...and since educating the students on Ohio's laws is not required other than providing them with the link to the AG booklet, the appeal process would result in the student getting his/her CHL.

Second, is your assertion that NRA would say that based on actual experience ?? I would love to see a letter from NRA with personal info censored that saud more or less "We do not really car what they are teaching in a "Basic Pistol with material added to qualify as an Ohio CHL class" type of class.

I stand firm in my assertion that if a handful of students wrote and complained, the Instructor would hear something from NRA.
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AlanM
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by AlanM »

I am going by what I was told to my class by our NRA Training Counselor when I became an NRA Certified Instructor for Basic Pistol and Basic Rifle.
He stated at that time that the NRA position was that to issue the NRA Basic Pistol Training Certificate the 10 hour NRA curriculum had to be followed to the letter. That, of course, contains some range time as part of the course.
He then stated that if we were planning to hold courses aimed at providing the training required for an Ohio CHL that any information or training that was Ohio CHL specific was to be done in the extra two hours that the ORC required. In other words, the NRA is/was only interested in the proper presentation of the 10 hour basic pistol course part, and then only if the NRA Basic Pistol Certificate was to be awarded.
I have no information WRT using the NRA Personal Protection course as the basis of an Ohio CHL training class other than the fact that the time requirements for completion of the NRA Basics of Personal Protection Outside The Home Course requires MANY more hours than 12 and that the legal section be taught by an attorney certified in the state be taught.
I suggest you read the full course description for the Personal Protection Outside The Home Course here, just left click on "More info" to the right of the course title. The last paragraph implies that the NRA has NO desire to certify instructors WRT local state law and that that should be done at the state level outside of the NRA's purview.
The NRA Basic Personal Protection In The Home Course is an 8 hour course so that could probably be used as a basis of an Ohio CHL training class with more range time and time to cover Ohio law to fill out the 12 hour ORC requirement.
AlanM
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by willbird »

Still, the NRA Certified Instructor is an NRA Certified Instructor (and I took the same type of classes you did Alan), and the class in question did include a portion where an NRA cert was issued...............my bet is till that a written complaint about collateral goings on to the class would not be a waste of time.............it may bring scrutiny, and cause the cert to be revoked in some cases where it ought to be revoked anyway.

If this had happened to the guys teaching the short classes sooner than it did, much of that would have been avoided.

My ma raised me to believe that a polite written letter of complaint is a very powerful tool against wrongdoers :-). And many times she was proven to be very correct :-).
Have a great day today unless you have made other plans :-).
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baz
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by baz »

willbird wrote:My ma raised me to believe that a polite written letter of complaint is a very powerful tool against wrongdoers :-). And many times she was proven to be very correct :-).
I agree completely.

Back to the original post, I think there may have been some misunderstanding. I too have taken Roger's class and never heard him mention anything about OC not being aloud. On the other hand, he did stress that he does not recommend OC around the cities and exclaimed, "We are not ready for that yet." His opinion was that we are heading in the right direction, but too many cowboys in the city may harm the movement for gun rights. (Remember his class is around Cleveland area; trying to fight for gun rights in Cleveland is an arduous task).

I will also commend Roger on an outstanding class. He kept things interesting and humorous. My wife and I highly recommend his class.

Perhaps the bigger problem here is that Ohio's CC laws are convoluted and difficult to completely grasp (yet hopefully getting better). Moreover requiring people to be in class for 12 hours is too much. People will get tired, zone out, or perhaps misunderstand after such a long day. Now, this is no excuse; we should still reread the laws if uncertain. I just believe a 12 hour class is too much.
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inspiredsports
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Re: Open Carry with CCW

Post by inspiredsports »

I can't speak to broad generalizations that can be made about instructors in general, but In the case of this particular instuctor, if he is truly disseminating bad information, perhaps 6,000 Ohio CCW's would be scrutinized.

I have spoken personally with 2 Sherrif's Departments, a County Prosecutor and my personal attorney (a former area judge) to ascertain Roger Polk is at the top of the heap when it comes to a CCW license undergoing scrutiny if you are forced to terminate someone and are sued by their survivors.

As far as open carry . . .

. . . the difference between open carry being LEGAL in Ohio, and open carry being a WISE CHOICE needs to be clarified.

For instance:

--- On Valentines Day 2012, the powers that be in Canton, Ohio, budgeted $20,000 of their constituents tax dollars to pay out $100 rewards for anonymous tips from informants that lead to the arrest of anyone illegally carrying a gun. This I'm sure will result in the detention of numerous law-abiding Ohio CCW licensees with cause generated by a crackhead hoping for a $100 reward.

--- The youtube.com (I can't find the link right now) video of an embarrassed young man comes to mind. His open carry pistol was stolen (at gunpoint) by a criminal with a concealed handgun. The criminal saw the pistol beraring victim coming from a mile away, approached from behind, and made off with a nice shiny new Glock.

--- We've been fed at least 6 decades worth of drivel that portray excercising our 2nd amandment rights as a bad thing and open carry frightens many of those brainwashed folks.

I'm of the opinion that open carry is not the best defensive posture to take.
Criminals obey "gun control" laws in the same manner politicians follow their oaths of office. – Anonymous
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