time 4 a OC walk in Cleveland...

mattswabb · Post by **mattswabb** » Tue Sep 11, 2007 5:31 pm

I'm in

jacksnack · Post by **jacksnack** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 5:25 pm

I have a drive...from Kolumbus, but a road trip for this would be worth while.

Jronjakoh · Post by **Jronjakoh** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:36 pm

Count me in! it would be worth the drive from Youngstown just to see the look on Jackson's face.

But would it be wise to make sure the Chief of Police is informed of it first? May just help with the B.S.

Timmy44221 · Post by **Timmy44221** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:32 pm

Jronjakoh wrote:Count me in! it would be worth the drive from Youngstown just to see the look on Jackson's face.

But would it be wise to make sure the Chief of Police is informed of it first? May just help with the B.S.

It would probably be wise to inform the police... and look into other laws they may try to break up the walk based on.

Cleveland may have a "gang rule" that says three or more people cannot congregate or someting like that. So just go in twos, and have ten feet between every group.

But in all seriousness, What did OFCC so when it organized the walkes befor CC was allowed? I would think letting them know in advance would save any hassle with "man with gun" calls.

willbird · Post by **willbird** » Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:33 pm

The OC march in Swanton Ohio was in the newspaper before hand, thats how I found out about it and joined in

Bill

Post by **jgarvas** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 12:27 am

Timmy44221 wrote: But in all seriousness, What did OFCC so when it organized the walkes befor CC was allowed? I would think letting them know in advance would save any hassle with "man with gun" calls.

Every walk had a walk captain or multiple captains. These people led small groups of the whole larger event. Everyone carried a visible firearm and if they loaded it or not was up to them. At events such as the open carry shopping event in Vermilion we advised everyone not to remove their gun from the holster -- expect the news cameras to ask you to. They did. Someone supposedly complied. BadFootage(TM).

In most cases we would advise the city that we were going to do what we intended to do, and in most cases we gave them the route we intended to walk. You are NOT requesting a permit for a parade. You are simply arranging a public walk along public roads, parks, and sidewalks.

Anyone may show up. Anyone may participate. You're just telling the city out of the kindness of your heart. Lorain threatened to arrest us and the Law Director then advised the Mayor or Police Chief (I forget which) that there was nothing to arrest us for.

With Jackson's statements in the news its unlikely that the City would have the ground to stand on to threaten an arrest. The Police Chief, Public Safety Director and the Mayor have said that you can do this in a press conference. Carrying the gun openly doesn't appear to violate disorderly conduct, inducing panic, or anything like that.

Doing this without tipping off the media serves little purpose. If anyone really wants to do one we can work together to coordinate one. The question becomes this: What do we gain? Is it worth it?

You'd simply give Mayor Jackson's proposed law merit in the eyes of those people who would see this on the news. You can almost bet that someone would try to bring some kids and arm them and join teh walk. (What are you going to do about it but suffer the bad press?)

In 2003 we had a reason. We basically said "This is what the Ohio Supreme Court says we can do, wouldn't you rather we conceal the firearms?" -- and that was the true purpose of these walks.

Every so often someone says we should have an OC Walk. In this specific case I continue to wonder what the goal is. What are we trying to achieve politically short of saying 'haha I did it!" -- Anyone?

If we have a reason, such as the open holster walks they want to do on college campuses to show students and staff disarmed, that makes sense.

Walking open carry in Cleveland because a ban on possession by kids was proposed seems to be exactly what Mayor Jackson wants to see on television, while I'd like to see him show us proof that "kids" are open carrying to avoid concealed carry charges.

Post by **SeanC** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:37 am

It would probably be wise to inform the police... and look into other laws they may try to break up the walk based on.

Cleveland may have a "gang rule" that says three or more people cannot congregate or someting like that. So just go in twos, and have ten feet between every group.

The gang rules are unconstitional on their face and most certainly don't apply to groups gathered together "peaceably assembled" to petition the government for redress. Sound familiar?

You're right, Jeff. Maybe doesn't advance a goal. The thought of being falsely arrested at the behest of Cleveland's overambitious and uninformed mayor was very appealing to me. I'm disgusted at the thought of any Ohio mayor going on television and saying "We're going to arrest anyone open carrying," and then no one does anything to prove them wrong. It calls to mind the story we've all heard: "First they came for the Jews, but I am not Jewish, so I didn't speak up..."

Post by **jgarvas** » Thu Sep 13, 2007 9:51 am

SeanC wrote: You're right, Jeff. Maybe doesn't advance a goal. The thought of being falsely arrested at the behest of Cleveland's overambitious and uninformed mayor was very appealing to me. I'm disgusted at the thought of any Ohio mayor going on television and saying "We're going to arrest anyone open carrying," and then no one does anything to prove them wrong. It calls to mind the story we've all heard: "First they came for the Jews, but I am not Jewish, so I didn't speak up..."

I don't recall him saying they'd arrest anyone. I watched the press conference for nearly an hour live and I swear that they said "we can not do anything about it"

Whomever said "we will arrest" clearly didn't make it into any news stories, short of Steve Loomis (CCPA) saying they "could" arrest a kid waving a gun around.

fox72 · Post by **fox72** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 12:15 am

I will probably be out of state by the time this is coordinated. Jeff, you ask a very legitimate question about what this will accomplish. Here is my opinion.

1. If anyone were to possibly be arrested it would lay the groundwork for
another test case of HB347 and the ability of the state to only have
jurisdiction over firearm laws.

2. A OC walk is taped by media, and all of those big black guns cause
no harm while being carried by responsible adults. Is that not good PR
for ALL gun owners?

3. Doesn't an OC walk force members of the anti gunners to admit,
unwillingly, that there is nothing illegal about carrying guns? Even while
they lament the fact?

I like concealed carry and I will defend it. But, isn't the idea of having a OC walk, and then saying, "wouldn't you rather have us hide them", a mistake? IMHO that makes that scenario a lot like hiding a dirty little secret. It gives the impression to some we will sacrifice a right, just to have everyone turn a blind eye to what we are doing. Is that scenario not sacrificing liberty for a temporary sense of security? IE, "if we hide them the LE won't bother us"

We have no guarantee that HB347 will stand forever.

Ring · Post by **Ring** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 2:22 am

pic a time/day and post some "news bites" we can respond to the local news with, and im there

airdog714 · Post by **airdog714** » Fri Sep 14, 2007 4:21 am

I work alot, but, pick a day and if I'm off that day, I'll be there.

Now, what would be the best way to carry?

1 gun, or multipal guns.

I can carry western, OBW on the hip, OC on the thigh, or IWB.

One word of caution to those who choose to carry IWB uncovered. I have heard that case law has ruled that IWB is still concealed carry, even if it is uncovered. So you must inform LEO if he stops you, or you may pay the price for failure to inform.

Count me in.

airdog

vadersi · Post by **vadersi** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 10:03 am

just got back. I was carring , not openly.. I did spot one other guy who was printing very minimum though. No one would have noticed it though my wife did. lol

p99 · Post by **p99** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:42 pm

Count me in if this happens!

Timmy44221 · Post by **Timmy44221** » Sat Sep 15, 2007 9:53 pm

I would most likely be unable to attend, but I will try to give input.

I agree that this walk would need a purpose, other than the "haha... look what I can do" factor.

Now that reason can be as simple as:

"Look, guns dont hurt people. Criminals do. The legal gun owning people of ohio are responcible and do not wish to be subjegated to the demands of criminals. We will defend our lives to stop a threat agianst it if nessisary. We are doing the OC walk to raise awareness of the good of firearms."

This is the kind of meesage you need to make clear to the media. While this is a Comcealed Carry group, that focuses on that effort, we cannot forget that CC is a subset of overall gun rights. I see no reason why OC walks, or CC walks with media attention could not be used as a tool to show that gun owners are not the isse, criminals are, and that guns can actualy decrease crime.

Now the question is... How far will you go? Will you be willing to do OC walks in the "Ghetto" of Cleveland as well as in front of Ctity Hall. I can both places playing valid roles in getting out the messege.

dan dan the XD40 man · Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:19 pm

Count in Me + 1. I've been wanting to participate in an OC walk for quite some time.