Liberty Center now CPZ

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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby J_86 » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:40 pm

No response yet.

The apartment community at Liberty Center is managed by a different company then who manages the overall location. Property manger of the apartments did confirm that is who would of posted the signs.

I don't see how the can legally prevent residents from concealed carrying in the residential parking area and the residential building after reading over the ORC. There are store fronts that are technically connected to my building. Obviously INAL, am I off base? Anyone know of this similar situation like this where residential and retail/commercial blend as one? I know of The Green Town Center up in Beavercreek, but I believe that is a different developer.
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby JediSkipdogg » Mon Jul 11, 2016 6:53 pm

It's a new fad and something neither us nor the Ohio GA thought about. It will obviously probably be a hot topic with them over the next few years.
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby docachna » Tue Jul 12, 2016 8:50 pm

Brian D. wrote:
J_86 wrote:Well, I find this very interesting. I live at one of the Liberty Center apartment buildings.

I had not noticed the new signs , when I saw this I walked around and sure enough they are posted now. They must of just gone up in the last few weeks. :evil:


Well, if you make inquiries, please share what you learn with us here on the forum.


If it were me asking, my first question would be "where in the lease agreement do you deserve the right to dictate whether I possess a firearm in my residence or vehicle ? I'll wait while you find it...."
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby J_86 » Mon Jul 18, 2016 10:36 pm

The management company that runs Liberty Center is who posted the signed, not the property management company that runs the two apartment buildings located at Liberty Center. The property management company that runs the apartments says they understand they cannot tell people that they cannot own or carry firearms in their home or building. They said that without me pushing, seems they have had that conversation before. They are a pretty large property management company. They deferred me to the company that manages Liberty Center property, but I have received no response.

From what I gather, seems they posted the signed after some kind of incident with a group of people where one person was asked to leave. A lot of negative reviews on their Facebook page from whatever happen.
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby JediSkipdogg » Tue Jul 19, 2016 11:40 am

J_86 wrote:From what I gather, seems they posted the signed after some kind of incident with a group of people where one person was asked to leave. A lot of negative reviews on their Facebook page from whatever happen.


That's my understanding as well. The idiot in that incident pressed the issue of no signs, so what do we have now? SIGNS!!!!!!
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby ArmedPatriots » Mon Jul 25, 2016 8:36 pm

JediSkipdogg wrote:
J_86 wrote:From what I gather, seems they posted the signed after some kind of incident with a group of people where one person was asked to leave. A lot of negative reviews on their Facebook page from whatever happen.


That's my understanding as well. The idiot in that incident pressed the issue of no signs, so what do we have now? SIGNS!!!!!!

This is one thing I DONT like about open carriers. Not open carry itself, but the jerky way some OCers behave and then ruin things for everyone else.
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby troy bilt » Mon Jul 25, 2016 9:42 pm

ArmedPatriots wrote:
JediSkipdogg wrote:
J_86 wrote:From what I gather, seems they posted the signed after some kind of incident with a group of people where one person was asked to leave. A lot of negative reviews on their Facebook page from whatever happen.


That's my understanding as well. The idiot in that incident pressed the issue of no signs, so what do we have now? SIGNS!!!!!!

This is one thing I DONT like about open carriers. Not open carry itself, but the jerky way some OCers behave and then ruin things for everyone else.


I open carry every day. If I am asked to leave a non posted property (as long as it is not a public property) I just drop anything that does not belong to me and leave. I do not mention the posting of signs.

I will then go home and evaluate the situation to see if pressing the issue will cause more harm than good. I would probably talk it over with the respectable folks here at OFCC first.
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby Comey » Sun Aug 14, 2016 7:09 pm

That's not the place I look for businesses having signs posted.
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby rainmaker » Mon Aug 15, 2016 8:07 am

Dick's Sporting Goods at Liberty Center is two floors and actually not a bad store. They have a pretty good selection (for Dick's) of firearms and ammo. Wonder what the landlords think about that. Dick's has their own entrance (not posted) and surface parking, so you don't have to walk thru the mall or parking garages. I'm sure gun and ammo sales is part of the income that pays the rent - to the "no guns" landlords. Not sure how that all works. :)
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby Wolfie » Fri Oct 07, 2016 7:43 pm

http://www.journal-news.com/news/liberty-center-security-concern-for-butler-county-sheriff/X5P3V5AhZuK5UU0kxLVSHP/

LIBERTY TWP.
Liberty Center is a destination area that attracts thousands of shoppers and diners, but come the busy holiday season, it no longer will have a full-time sheriff’s deputy patrolling there.

Liberty Center had paid the salary of Butler County Deputy Mike Matala since opening one year ago, but the contract expires at the end of this month. Matala took on the job as a full-time responsibility, working closely with Liberty Center’s own security force.

MORE: Liberty Center to impact local tourism, crime, property values


Butler County Sheriff’s deputies place cones along the turn lanes at the entrances to Liberty Center in preparation for shopping traffic on Black Friday last year. Liberty Center had paid the salary of a Butler County Deputy to patrol the $350 million development since opening one year ago, but the contract expires at the end of this month. Nick Graham
Butler County Sheriff Richard Jones said the change worries him.

“Malls and shopping centers are targets, we have seen that,” Jones said. “And we are going to see more. Now, all they will have is a little security guy walking around in a nice little outfit. They can’t stop anything, they will have to call us to respond.”

Liberty Center modeled its security initially after plans similar to Easton Town Center and other retail outlets that combine retail-provided security with area law enforcement.

Jones said Liberty Center security has indicated it may hire some off-duty officers a couple days a week, but he says that is just not enough to secure the safety of diners, shoppers and the nearly 150 people who live at Liberty Center.

“You have seen it, attacks at malls, terrorist attacks a locations where a lot of people are injured, ” the sheriff said. “It is on I-75 — an easy target.”

Liberty Center sent a statement via email in response to Jones’ comments.

“We value our relationship with the Butler County Sheriff’s Office and look forward to a continued professional partnership to keep Liberty Center a safe destination for our guests and tenants,” said Kevin Cedik, Liberty Center’s general manager. “The Butler County Sheriff’s Office continues to have a prominent presence at Liberty Center with deputy sheriffs’ coverage scheduled according to guest visitation and other patterns on the property.”

“We do not discuss specific security plans,” Cedik said.

Matala worked a 3 to 11 p.m. shift hand-in-hand with Liberty Center’s security staff. He also helped with set-up for events and traffic concerns. But his primary job was to respond quickly to any criminal call.

“I did a lot of bike patrolling, which out there means I could get around quickly,” he said.

In October, November and December 2015, there were 348 calls for law enforcement, and in 2016 through September, 919 calls. The complaints include shoplifting, drugs, fights, vandalism, indecent exposure, car crashes, intoxicated people, noise and domestic disturbances.

“It is a city within the township,” Matala said, noting the security staff of about 18 are great to work with, but they are not armed and do not have arrest powers. “They have flashlights and handcuffs. They are there primarily to observe and report.”

Matala, whose annual salary is $54,537, will go back to road patrol when his contract ends at the end of this month.

Jones said his department will have to pick up the load of responding to Liberty Center when a crime occurs, which can impact units patrolling the remainder of the township.

“It will kill our resources that the taxpayers have already paid for,” Jones said.
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby mreising » Sun Nov 06, 2016 2:46 pm

Just went there yesterday because my wife wanted to have dinner with some friends at a pizza place in Liberty Center. I noticed on the bill that there is a separate, 0.5% sales tax for Liberty Center. How can they charge a sales tax if they are not a governmental entity? If they are government, then how can they prohibit carry on the streets of the development? When I asked about the extra tax, our server informed us that she also pays a special earnings tax for the privilege of working there. Our dinner friends also confirmed the additional sales tax at another restaurant in the facility. Is this a municipal/township/county facility or is it private? I'm not keen on going back but will probably have to sometime in the future to maintain marital harmony. I n the mean time, I may get as close as Cabelas, but that is about it.
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby JediSkipdogg » Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:00 pm

mreising wrote:Just went there yesterday because my wife wanted to have dinner with some friends at a pizza place in Liberty Center. I noticed on the bill that there is a separate, 0.5% sales tax for Liberty Center. How can they charge a sales tax if they are not a governmental entity? If they are government, then how can they prohibit carry on the streets of the development? When I asked about the extra tax, our server informed us that she also pays a special earnings tax for the privilege of working there. Our dinner friends also confirmed the additional sales tax at another restaurant in the facility. Is this a municipal/township/county facility or is it private? I'm not keen on going back but will probably have to sometime in the future to maintain marital harmony. I n the mean time, I may get as close as Cabelas, but that is about it.


Do some research on the Liberty Community Authority. It was created in 2013 after a change in state law and itself is a public body. Chapter 349 of the ORC talks about New Community Organizations, which is what the LCA is.

Now, how far their powers may go and what they may constitute is public vs private I don't know. It's something someone would have to research but Liberty Center is only one of many of these going to pop up in Ohio in the near future. Basically they were created as a way for buildings to build centers of activity and allow the special taxing of people that work, live, or visit there. The boundaries are the property lines of the development and all money must be collected and spent inside those boundaries.
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby JediSkipdogg » Sun Nov 06, 2016 3:10 pm

Now something I found that goes along what Brian is asking....

349.06 Power and authority of new community authority

In furtherance of the purposes of this chapter, a new community authority may:

(F) Adopt, modify, and enforce reasonable rules and regulations governing the use of community facilities;



Now, 9.68 says "Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition. "


My question would be the above is state law, and it's giving an NCA the authority to create rules and regulations of the property it covers, so would that be or not be allowed by state law?
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby mreising » Sun Nov 06, 2016 10:44 pm

JediSkipdogg wrote:Now something I found that goes along what Brian is asking....

349.06 Power and authority of new community authority

In furtherance of the purposes of this chapter, a new community authority may:

(F) Adopt, modify, and enforce reasonable rules and regulations governing the use of community facilities;



Now, 9.68 says "Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition. "


My question would be the above is state law, and it's giving an NCA the authority to create rules and regulations of the property it covers, so would that be or not be allowed by state law?

It seems to me that they would be a public body if they have the ability to levy taxes, and in that case then, 9.68 should apply. Maybe we should push to have it codified that NCAs are subject to 9.68.
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Re: Liberty Center now CPZ

Postby Brian D. » Mon Nov 07, 2016 7:31 am

mreising wrote:
JediSkipdogg wrote:Now something I found that goes along what Brian is asking....

349.06 Power and authority of new community authority

In furtherance of the purposes of this chapter, a new community authority may:

(F) Adopt, modify, and enforce reasonable rules and regulations governing the use of community facilities;



Now, 9.68 says "Except as specifically provided by the United States Constitution, Ohio Constitution, state law, or federal law, a person, without further license, permission, restriction, delay, or process, may own, possess, purchase, sell, transfer, transport, store, or keep any firearm, part of a firearm, its components, and its ammunition. "


My question would be the above is state law, and it's giving an NCA the authority to create rules and regulations of the property it covers, so would that be or not be allowed by state law?

It seems to me that they would be a public body if they have the ability to levy taxes, and in that case then, 9.68 should apply. Maybe we should push to have it codified that NCAs are subject to 9.68.


Think we have time to push that through the General Assembly in this cycle? Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! Uh, on a more helpful note, I'd say Senator Bill Coley (R-Middletown) would be a good one to get on this, since he's such an advocate for private property rights, almost an extremist in fact. At least he'd have a good idea whether or not an NCA is a political subdivision or whatever.
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