Block watch meeting in a church

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dingode
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Block watch meeting in a church

Post by dingode »

One of our local block watch groups meets in a church. Next week they are going to have the police bring in a variety of real guns and fake/air soft type guns so people can see just how hard it is at time to tell the difference,especially when the adrenaline is pumping.

My question is is it legal for the police to bring the guns into the church, a statutory no gun zone? I can understand their duty weapon not being an issue, but what about the extra guns? Would they need to get permission from the church for the guns to be in the building?

Just curious.
mreising
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Re: Block watch meeting in a church

Post by mreising »

The church is not a statutory no gun zone, it is an area where concealed carry of firearms is prohibited unless authorized by the powers that be within the church. I have taught concealed carry classes in churches, all with the permission of the leaders (actually at their request). This should not be an issue, especially since it is part of an educational event. Even schools can allow firearms to be present on the premises, within certain limits and for certain purposes.
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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Block watch meeting in a church

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

mreising wrote:The church is not a statutory no gun zone, it is an area where concealed carry of firearms is prohibited unless authorized by the powers that be within the church...
Not to argue semantics, but a church IS a "statutory no gun zone"...it's in the list of such places IN the state statute. It just has a statutory exception available.
R.C. 2923.126(B)(6) Any church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship, unless the church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship posts or permits otherwise
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Re: Block watch meeting in a church

Post by JediSkipdogg »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
mreising wrote:The church is not a statutory no gun zone, it is an area where concealed carry of firearms is prohibited unless authorized by the powers that be within the church...
Not to argue semantics, but a church IS a "statutory no gun zone"...it's in the list of such places IN the state statute. It just has a statutory exception available.
R.C. 2923.126(B)(6) Any church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship, unless the church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship posts or permits otherwise
Playing with semantics. It's not statutory no carry like a government building is. They can grant permission which eliminates the no carry prohibition.

Also, one could even go a step further and say that section starts off with...

(B) A valid concealed handgun license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun in any manner prohibited under division (B) of section 2923.12 of the Revised Code or in any manner prohibited under section 2923.16 of the Revised Code. A valid license does not authorize the licensee to carry a concealed handgun into any of the following places:

Bringing firearms into a church to display does not require them to ever be concealed.
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I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
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MyWifeSaidYes
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Re: Block watch meeting in a church

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

JediSkipdogg wrote:Playing with semantics. It's not statutory no carry like a government building is. They can grant permission which eliminates the no carry prohibition...
Yes, a church is a special case because it has an exemption, but...

...it's statutory because it is listed in a statute.

statutory ; adjective stat·u·to·ry \ˈsta-chə-ˌtȯr-ē\

1) of or relating to statutes;

2) enacted, created, or regulated by statute

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/statutory" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
If there is NO CPZ sign posted on the building, a concealed carrier can't enter. That is the default state. Having permission to enter is a one-off situation.
JediSkipdogg wrote:...Bringing firearms into a church to display does not require them to ever be concealed.
And that's where a CPZ sign comes into play.

If the building is posted, an open carrier can't go in without permission, just like any other CPZ.


And, getting back to the original issue, peace officers are authorized to enter CPZ's while armed and on official business. There doesn't seem to be any limitation on how many guns said officer may possess. If attending the Block Watch meeting can be considered official business, permission would not be needed.
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dingode
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Re: Block watch meeting in a church

Post by dingode »

Thank you all for your thoughts on the matter. I wonder if the block watch leader notified the church leaders about the guns being brought in? Not going to ask or make a fuss about it. This area could use all the police and block watch help it can get. Our zip code leads in heroin overdoses in Toledo.
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Re: Block watch meeting in a church

Post by 3FULLMAGS+1 »

Just curious, does the church were this meetings taking place, allow carry.....you didn't mention it?
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dingode
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Re: Block watch meeting in a church

Post by dingode »

the church doesn't allow carry as far as I'm aware. I vote there, but I never really looked at the doors while going in. Can't carry while voting and most churches don't allow carry.
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Re: Block watch meeting in a church

Post by JustaShooter »

Looking at the doors won't help. Ohio law prohibits concealed carry in a church or other place of worship unless the church specifically allows it.
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Re: Block watch meeting in a church

Post by 3FULLMAGS+1 »

JustaShooter wrote:Looking at the doors won't help. Ohio law prohibits concealed carry in a church or other place of worship unless the church specifically allows it.
You need to ask the pastor of that church if carry is allowed or if it was ever discussed in the church and what became of those discussions
Darrel
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mreising
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Re: Block watch meeting in a church

Post by mreising »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:
mreising wrote:The church is not a statutory no gun zone, it is an area where concealed carry of firearms is prohibited unless authorized by the powers that be within the church...
Not to argue semantics, but a church IS a "statutory no gun zone"...it's in the list of such places IN the state statute. It just has a statutory exception available.
R.C. 2923.126(B)(6) Any church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship, unless the church, synagogue, mosque, or other place of worship posts or permits otherwise
You're reading too much in to my response. Firearms in general are not prohibited; concealed carry without permission IS prohibited. The original question was about firearms being displayed as part of a training situation, not specifically concealed carry. I'll gladly retract my statement if I am mistaken.
The tyrant will always find a pretext for his tyranny

Mark
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