How should this sign be interpreted?

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doublestack
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How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by doublestack »

I ran across this today while shopping with the wife. I wasn't sure how to interpret, I got hung up on the "Unless otherwise authorized by law..." bit. Thoughts?


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rDigital
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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by rDigital »

That part applies to law enforcement and armed security guards. This sign effectively makes it criminal trespass for an armed CHL to enter.
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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by BobK »

Don't carry there
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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by Aesinsp »

Sounds like a grey area based on my limited experience and knowledge.
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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by JustaShooter »

Aesinsp wrote:Sounds like a grey area based on my limited experience and knowledge.
Nope. No grey area. That is the wording required by ORC 2923.1212 for statutory no-carry locations. And since the intent is clear, it would be a legal posting for a private business or property (in my opinion).
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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by TJW815 »

Interpret as they do not want your money!


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doublestack
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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by doublestack »

Thanks for the feedback. I leaned towards, not OK to carry there. I also was at a restaurant that still had the liquor control Class D warning signage too. I didn't say anything, but it makes me wonder why the owners/managers of establishments don't keep up with the law and such.
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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by Cruiser »

doublestack wrote:Thanks for the feedback. I leaned towards, not OK to carry there. I also was at a restaurant that still had the liquor control Class D warning signage too. I didn't say anything, but it makes me wonder why the owners/managers of establishments don't keep up with the law and such.
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doublestack
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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by doublestack »

Ahhh. good point!!
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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by SMMAssociates »

doublestack:

Here we go again :D....

It's fairly clear that either the proprietor doesn't want us in there, or somebody sent him a sign with a "you must post" note, and he didn't ask anybody....

However, that's not the AG's sign, either, which makes the "obtained from" wording bogus.

(Unless they changed something I missed :D.)

The ORC is pretty specific about those signs NOT authorizing us on Statutory CPZ's, but really doesn't cover CHL's on private property. On duty LEO's can ignore these signs anyway, with a few exceptions, on Statutory CPZ's, but may have issues on private property without the "unless authorized" wording, BUT, my take is that I'll carry there unless asked not to.

Warning: IANAL, and this is the Internet :D. Just sometimes there's nobody else to ask. The law doesn't specifically unexempt us for private property but does appear to tell the property owner to consult his lawyer before using the sign. Disregarding all the crazy stuff about "assume", IMHO, I think a presumption that he/she DID consult a lawyer might be valid, and that counsel advised him/her that there was a big hole in "unless authorized", and the proprietor chose to ignore it....

Now, if the sign just says "no firearms", or "no firearms unless you're an LEO", that's another story, and i think they've been reading us, because you will find signs worded that way. No question there - vote with feet....

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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by JustaShooter »

Hey Stu, I'm having trouble finding that section of the ORC that authorizes a CHL holder to carry past a sign that says "it is illegal to carry a firearm...anywhere on these premises", could you point me there? Thanks... :wink:
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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by Trilby »

My CHL was "authorized by (a) law" for places except schools, post office, et al. Why can't the wording of the laws be changed to allow background checked, law abiding citizens to enter some of the places with these confusing (to me) signs.
I can accept an absolute, I don't want your business sign and go elsewhere, but frankly, this wording is messed up.
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djthomas
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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by djthomas »

Give it another six months and a good gust of wind and that sign will be a moot point.
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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by schmieg »

Trilby wrote:My CHL was "authorized by (a) law" for places except schools, post office, et al. Why can't the wording of the laws be changed to allow background checked, law abiding citizens to enter some of the places with these confusing (to me) signs.
I can accept an absolute, I don't want your business sign and go elsewhere, but frankly, this wording is messed up.
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color of law
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Re: How should this sign be interpreted?

Post by color of law »

The sign applies to government buildings. When that sign is posted on a private establishment the "Unless otherwise authorized by law...” is an invitation to come on in. R.C. 2923.1212 does not mention one word about private establishments.

Look at it this way, just because a security guard wears a uniform, carries a gun and gives the appearance of having super powers, the security guard has no police powers at all, no more than you.

Werz totally disagrees with me, but the AG booklet makes it clear that before a private establishment uses the sign they should consult an attorney; wonder why?
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