The Strip in Canton

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djthomas
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by djthomas »

JustaShooter wrote:Perhaps on a square footage basis, but I can't imagine you'd be successful in arguing that it was anything other than primarily a retail / shopping center. Be serious, you don't go there to park, you go there to shop, eat, etc. That fact that there is a large amount of parking is secondary to the primary use of the property. Take away the retail / shopping aspects of the premises and there would be no reason to go there.
Point being the law is not clear on what "primarily was a parking lot or other parking facility" means. It doesn't refer to the "primary purpose" which is subjective. It says "primarily was" which has to be fairly objective. The question I ask myself is: what were the legislators trying to solve here? There are very few privately owned parking lots/facilities in this state that are not a part of something else. If they intended the law to apply exclusively to properties that have no other purpose than parking then why include the word "primarily"? Why not just say if the firearm is in a vehicle in a parking lot or parking facility?

Perhaps the lack of relevant case law means something in and of itself. Some years ago I heard a few folks who were very close to the drafting process talk about this change as the Stark Amendment. Last I checked Robert Stark Enterprises doesn't run any standalone parking facilities and incidentally the Strip is owned by him.
JustaShooter wrote:I'm continually amazed at the lengths some folks will go so they don't feel like they are doing anything wrong by supporting anti-2A businesses.
I agree to a point. Each person has to make their own decisions. I, for one will go out of my way to support an establishment that is either pro-2A or has not expressed a negative opinion. But it is not my place to call out and put down folks who choose to spend their money as they see fit. The funny thing of it is if you started making a list of every establishment and the political opinions that those who work there have ever expressed you'd quickly find that you can't do business with anybody.
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by WayneB »

I'm continually amazed at the lengths some folks will go so they don't feel like they are doing anything wrong by supporting anti-2A businesses.
I also think the same thing about many judges that twist and pull laws and opinions such that no amount of regulation is in any way contrary to the constitution. Interpreting laws to whatever advantage someone likes seems to be quite common.
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metop92
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by metop92 »

I found that the entrance closest to the I-77 exit furthest north had signs at the entrance, literally when I took a left into the entrance. They were small, speed limit sized signs. I also found that BabiesRUs also had a GB sign on their door. This was as of ~mid-Feb, 2014.

When I got home, I looked up who owns The Strip, and contacted them via email to voice my displeasure/that I'll take my business elsewhere. I also confirmed that The Strip is on the DNPWA database here on the site.

Here's the company that owns The Strip, along with several other shopping centers in the NE Ohio area: http://www.starkenterprises.com/propert ... strip.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Stark Enterprises Contact info is located on the bottom right corner of the page (hold your mouse over the Pres/VP/Property Manager names). Take a minute and let them know that you are also vehemently disagree with their posting/will take your business elsewhere.
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Paul
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by Paul »

metop92 wrote:I found that the entrance closest to the I-77 exit furthest north had signs at the entrance, literally when I took a left into the entrance. They were small, speed limit sized signs. I also found that BabiesRUs also had a GB sign on their door. This was as of ~mid-Feb, 2014.

When I got home, I looked up who owns The Strip, and contacted them via email to voice my displeasure/that I'll take my business elsewhere. I also confirmed that The Strip is on the DNPWA database here on the site.

Here's the company that owns The Strip, along with several other shopping centers in the NE Ohio area: http://www.starkenterprises.com/propert ... strip.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (Stark Enterprises Contact info is located on the bottom right corner of the page (hold your mouse over the Pres/VP/Property Manager names). Take a minute and let them know that you are also vehemently disagree with their posting/will take your business elsewhere.
Stark could care less. All his properties are posted and he's not going to change.
kentman
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by kentman »

Paul wrote:Stark could care less. All his properties are posted and he's not going to change.
I agree. Sending a message can't hurt, but probably won't help much either, unless they get a whole bunch in a short time frame.

I checked his properties page, and found it interesting that they list Sam's club as a owned/managed property. They are entirely owned and operated by Walmart, who owns and maintains their land outright. They are also not posted. Even the county auditor site says Walmart owns it (Sam's), while Stark does own the property the Walmart sits on on the south side of the plaza. I wonder what gives there?
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by Duke of Advil »

I was here today.....
In one hand I've a Bible,
In the other I've got a gun.
Don't you know me,
I'm the man who won.
bkfamily1
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by bkfamily1 »

well I now see the signs. I don't know if they were gone and back or if I just had not seen them. I was honestly looking when I was in that area and never saw them before. They are not huge, but now that I have seen them I can't miss them. Sorry I was arguing about it before since they are indeed there.

So, please clarify a couple of questions.

1) in Ohio, even when posted, you can still have loaded firearms in your car with a CCW, correct? Do I understand correctly that other than prohibited places (schools, gov't buildings, etc), I can always have a weapon in my car in the parking lot posted or not?

2) If there are signs on the entrances to the parking lot and the "strip" in general, but nothing on the doors of any of the businesses, can I carry in those businesses or not?

3) Finally, having noticed a comment about OC at Wasabi, do I understand that I can open carry in those areas even though they are posted?

Thanks,

Bryan
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by Brian D. »

bkfamily1 wrote:
So, please clarify a couple of questions.

1) in Ohio, even when posted, you can still have loaded firearms in your car with a CCW, correct? Do I understand correctly that other than prohibited places (schools, gov't buildings, etc), I can always have a weapon in my car in the parking lot posted or not?

2) If there are signs on the entrances to the parking lot and the "strip" in general, but nothing on the doors of any of the businesses, can I carry in those businesses or not?

3) Finally, having noticed a comment about OC at Wasabi, do I understand that I can open carry in those areas even though they are posted?

Thanks,

Bryan


1) If the property is posted it is easy to presume they don't want you there with your guns. Under Ohio law if you left the gun in the car they could sue you. This assumes that they somehow know you have the gun in there, and being a civil rather than criminal matter, the burden would be on them to prove they were damaged by that fact, somehow. In all these years no one on these forums have ever reported being sued under those conditions, if that tells you anything.

2) Um, how would you getfrom the vehicle to the stores without walking across part of the parking lot? (Yeah I know, someone dropped you immediately in front of a shop's door, or you're a very good leaper and sprung from the car all the way to the shop entrance without touching the blacktop. :wink: )

3) Don't know about this Wasabi place you mention. Restaurant? Do they serve alcohol? If so, do you have a carry license? Without one you can't carry in a place which serves alcohol, even openly. With a CHL you can open or conceal carry in such a place. Personally, depending on the particular venue I lean towards concealed carry in places that serve beer/booze, but I've done it both ways. Factors in the decision include time of day, whether they're generally supportive of carry to begin with, and whether the joint is more of a RESTAURANT/bar, or BAR/restaurant, if you get my drift. What I mean is: Do the other patrons there go more for the food, or is their priority to get drunk? Of course the older I get the more I stay away from the latter type place to begin with.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

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Quijibo
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by Quijibo »

The last time I checked, there is a way to drive onto part of the property legally without passing one of the signs. :wink:
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concreteguy
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by concreteguy »

Quijibo wrote:The last time I checked, there is a way to drive onto part of the property legally without passing one of the signs. :wink:

Could you please share with the rest of us?
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catfish86
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by catfish86 »

On the lawsuit aspect, I have read this statute recently. Essentially it is a private action for civil trespass and the burden is to prove damages. This sounds obvious but to drill home the point, you have to have caused damages for a violation to be actionable. In effect this is the epitomy of a toothless law. The only teeth would be IF they caught, THEN they SUCCESSFULLY sued you and their only gain would be a court order not to do it again which would then put you in position for contempt of court sanctions IF they caught you doing it again. I would put this in the category of CPZ signs on municipal parking decks, essentially unenforceable.
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ARsRgood
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by ARsRgood »

Not sure if this has been covered or not, but what about Walmart at the Strip starting to sell firearms? How would the no weapons sign impact this? Technically if you walk out of the Walmart to your car across the parking lot, could you be charged with the trespass?
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Quijibo
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by Quijibo »

metop92 wrote:I also found that BabiesRUs also had a GB sign on their door. .
BabiesRUs= ToysRUs..... anti 2A.
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JustaShooter
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by JustaShooter »

ARsRgood wrote:Not sure if this has been covered or not, but what about Walmart at the Strip starting to sell firearms? How would the no weapons sign impact this? Technically if you walk out of the Walmart to your car across the parking lot, could you be charged with the trespass?
Arguably, it would not be criminal trespass in the parking lot, so the property owner would have to sue you in civil court and show damages. But yes, you could be charges with trespass.
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metalcd
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Re: The Strip in Canton

Post by metalcd »

i think i am just going to start carrying a large visible knife and see if they feel threaten.
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