"Permission" to carry in CPZ

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jabeatty
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Post by jabeatty »

Timmy44221 wrote:Hmm So theoreticaly if I got permission from Kent State Univeristy to carry, I could?
Nope. K-12 rules are different than those for universities & colleges.

2923.126(B)(5) prohibits carry in:
Any premises owned or leased by any public or private college, university, or other institution of higher education, unless the handgun is in a locked motor vehicle or the licensee is in the immediate process of placing the handgun in a locked motor vehicle;
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SMMAssociates
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Post by SMMAssociates »

Timmy:

I would expect to be ducking droppings from flying pigs or cows first, but IMHO, yes....

(James: There's got to be a hole in there for Security and other "needs of the institution" stuff....)

If I was a student, I would ask. Heck of a lawsuit might follow if that Cho guy has copycats....

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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jabeatty
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Post by jabeatty »

SMMAssociates wrote:I would expect to be ducking droppings from flying pigs or cows first, but IMHO, yes....

(James: There's got to be a hole in there for Security and other "needs of the institution" stuff....)
It's a statutory CPZ - there's no way for a "common" CHL-holder to get permission to carry there.
SMMAssociates wrote:If I was a student, I would ask. Heck of a lawsuit might follow if that Cho guy has copycats....
You'd have to sue the State of Ohio, as every university has the cover of law here - they simply can't allow carry on campus.
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jacksnack

Post by jacksnack »

Ahhhh what the heck....

My son is going to a private Kindergarten in several weeks. I need to pick him up outside the building on school grounds.
You do not enter a school building, premises or activity;
Can I do that? Would "premises" refer to the building or the property line?
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Post by SMMAssociates »

James:

You're correct.... AARGH....

jacksnack:

We feel that "premises" includes everything within the property lines. There's a definition hiding in there someplace that extends the border to the property lines. (Even though "premises" often only means a building.... Another trap for the unwary.)

Short form: You can pull up to the curb but must stay in the street.... There's no reason (other than issues of sanity) why you couldn't leave your weapon in the vehicle and walk the kids into the building, unarmed. You can't bring the weapon onto the property....

(If you don't have a CHL you can't even drive by the place without committing a Felony unless it's stored properly. That level of storage is not acceptable for the school property CHL or not....)

The preceding foolishness brought to you by people that have bodyguards for their kids....

(IANAL)

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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BobK
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Post by BobK »

willbird wrote:
if the handgun is not loaded and in a locked container, or a locked
firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
This section says under federal law you can lock your gun in a locked case, or lock it in a rack made for that purpose and as long as it is not loaded the law does not apply to it.
You are correct that 18 USC Sec. 922 (q)(2)(B)(iii) states:
(B) Subparagraph (A) does not apply to the possession of a firearm -
(iii) that is -
(I) not loaded; and
(II) in a locked container, or a locked firearms rack that is on a motor vehicle;
However, that is still forbidden, even for CHL holders, under Ohio law. 2923.122 Illegal conveyance or possession of deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance or of object indistinguishable from firearm in school safety zone states:
ORC 2923.122(B) wrote:(B) No person shall knowingly possess a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone.
The relevant exception is covered in (D)(3):
ORC 2923.122(D)(3) wrote:(3) This section does not apply to a person who conveys or attempts to convey a handgun into, or possesses a handgun in, a school safety zone if, at the time of that conveyance, attempted conveyance, or possession of the handgun, all of the following apply: (emphasis added)
(a) The person does not enter into a school building or onto school premises and is not at a school activity.
{This is the gothcha part of the language discussed below}
(b) The person is carrying a valid license or temporary emergency license to carry a concealed handgun issued to the person under section 2923.125 or 2923.1213 of the Revised Code or a license to carry a concealed handgun that was issued by another state with which the attorney general has entered into a reciprocity agreement under section 109.69 of the Revised Code.
(c) The person is in the school safety zone in accordance with 18 U.S.C. 922(q)(2)(B).
(d) The person is not knowingly in a place described in division (B)(1) or (B)(3) to (10) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code.
Subparagraph (a) is the key language that makes the Ohio Revised Code more restrictive than the United States Code.

Basically, it allows CHL holders CHL holders to be in the school safety zone, but disallows possession on the premises. Even unloaded and in a locked container is still illegal on school premises..

And don't even get me started on the whole poison pill embedded in the language "and is not at a school activity". Is dropping a child off at school at the curb "a school activity"? If there is a firearm unloaded and locked in the vehicle parked in a city park located 500 feet from the school, and a class field trip walks into the parking lot, is it suddenly covered under the "school activity" clause? If the school track team is going for a run in a park within 1000 feet of a school, is that "a school activity"?

You might think that I am being nitpicky about the poison pill language, but make no mistake that anti-gunners consistently leverage the law in unfair and overly scrupulous ways that are not forseen by the original legislators. Just look at the BATFE's enforcement history for plenty of examples.

Of course, then we have to address the "knowingly" part of the language.
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Post by willbird »

I was not commenting on the STATE law, my posting was in reply to the FEDERAL law reference.


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BobK
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Post by BobK »

willbird wrote:I was not commenting on the STATE law, my posting was in reply to the FEDERAL law reference.
But I was concerned that someone would read your comment, fall into the whole "federal trumps state" mindset error, and unwittingly get popped for an Ohio felony.
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Post by willbird »

OK the thread is getting long, and I am slow, but WHY does THIS BOLD section not TRUMP what you posted above ???
Quote:
(D)(1) This section does not apply to any of the following:

(a) An officer, agent, or employee of this or any other state or the United States, or a law enforcement officer, who is authorized to carry deadly weapons or dangerous ordnance and is acting within the scope of the officer’s, agent’s, or employee’s duties, a security officer employed by a board of education or governing body of a school during the time that the security officer is on duty pursuant to that contract of employment, or any other person who has written authorization from the board of education or governing body of a school to convey deadly weapons or dangerous ordnance into a school safety zone or to possess a deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in a school safety zone and who conveys or possesses the deadly weapon or dangerous ordnance in accordance with that authorization;
.

2923.122(D)(1).

Bill
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Post by SMMAssociates »

Bill:

The unbolded section allows on-duty LEO's and other government "agents", or a Security Officer, to carry. The bold section says that they can authorize "others". It appears (might be covered elsewhere) that a CHL is not required.

I don't see what you're "trumping"?

Regards,
Stu.

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(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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Post by willbird »

Does the bold text mean that the Board of Education can give written permission for any Ohioan with a CHL to carry in the school buildings ??

An ohio CHL would be required because of the Federal safe school zone BS.

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Post by SMMAssociates »

Bill:

I think you may be correct about the CHL being required, although a OPOTA certification might be sufficient. The State seems to have said that it doesn't matter, but the Federal side may require it.

The bold text sure seems to say the the Board can give such permission.

However, I don't see the boards, in areas where it'd be important, being willing....

Regards
Stu.

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(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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willbird
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Post by willbird »

My point SMMA is we need to ASK, and have it on the record that hundreds did at each school, pref. hundreds of teachers.


Bill
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Post by SMMAssociates »

Bill:

That's a great idea!

A well written letter detailing the potential of a free-fire zone, such as Virginia Tech and the mess that the COLLEGE folks made by forcing the legislature to disarm their students, might be a good idea.

(Particular mention of those other incidents, like the one where a teacher ran to his car and retrieved a weapon to stop a problem....)

Pressure on the Board for the K-12, and on the Legislature for the Secondary schools....

Regards,
Stu.

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(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

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Post by willbird »

Also a POLITE inquiry by a real smooth fella MIGHT prompt the school board to ask the AG for a ruling on whether they CAN issue written permission ??


Bill
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