Revoked CHL, no charges
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- Chuck
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Revoked CHL, no charges
I want to relate a telephone call I had today.
A 74 year old man had a "psychotic episode" a few months ago. He is on anti-anxiety medicine and his doctor was adjusting / switching his meds and he kinda went berserk one night. Bottom line is one shot speaker in the basement. He lives outside of any town, and has no recollection of the event.
Cops were called, they took his gun, CHLs, and gave him a free ride to the psychic hospital, and after his three days, he signed himself in for two more, and then was released.
He lives in Montgomery County and his CHL' comes from Greene County and the State of Arizona. Montgomery County returned his gun promptly, and Arizona returned his out of state CHL when he sent them a copy of the case dismissal. Greene County sent him a letter saying his CHL was suspended due to "being arrested, charged, indicted, or convicted" of a disqualifying offense, and if the case was resolved satisfactory, it would be reinstated.
They met with the sheriff and he is no refusing to reinstate the CHL, saying he "isn't comfortable" doing so. we (they) are now working on establishing a paper trail of this refusal with a formal request for what statute he is citing for it. He did tell them that if they could get a doctor to say in writing that it would never happen again, he would reinstate it.
My question is, can he carry on his Arizona CHL while this is getting worked out?
A 74 year old man had a "psychotic episode" a few months ago. He is on anti-anxiety medicine and his doctor was adjusting / switching his meds and he kinda went berserk one night. Bottom line is one shot speaker in the basement. He lives outside of any town, and has no recollection of the event.
Cops were called, they took his gun, CHLs, and gave him a free ride to the psychic hospital, and after his three days, he signed himself in for two more, and then was released.
He lives in Montgomery County and his CHL' comes from Greene County and the State of Arizona. Montgomery County returned his gun promptly, and Arizona returned his out of state CHL when he sent them a copy of the case dismissal. Greene County sent him a letter saying his CHL was suspended due to "being arrested, charged, indicted, or convicted" of a disqualifying offense, and if the case was resolved satisfactory, it would be reinstated.
They met with the sheriff and he is no refusing to reinstate the CHL, saying he "isn't comfortable" doing so. we (they) are now working on establishing a paper trail of this refusal with a formal request for what statute he is citing for it. He did tell them that if they could get a doctor to say in writing that it would never happen again, he would reinstate it.
My question is, can he carry on his Arizona CHL while this is getting worked out?
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
- JustaShooter
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
Whoof.
Standard disclaimer: IANAL, etc.
OK, so, we have a written reciprocity agreement with Arizona: https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Fil ... Agreement-(PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Therefore, according to Ohio law an Ohio resident can carry in Ohio on an Arizona license.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/109.69" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
However, I would be very concerned if he is stopped that a LEO may not give a rip that he has an AZ license since his OH license shows suspended. It's a risk, and I don't know how much of one or how to mitigate it. Lawyer familiar with the situation on speed dial? Someone smarter than me needs to opine here...
Standard disclaimer: IANAL, etc.
OK, so, we have a written reciprocity agreement with Arizona: https://www.ohioattorneygeneral.gov/Fil ... Agreement-(PDF" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Therefore, according to Ohio law an Ohio resident can carry in Ohio on an Arizona license.
http://codes.ohio.gov/orc/109.69" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Further, I see nothing in the ORC that says "unless his Ohio license is suspended or revoked" or similar.(B)
(1) If, on or after the effective date of this amendment, a person who is a resident of this state has a valid concealed handgun license that was issued by another license-issuing state that has entered into a reciprocity agreement with the attorney general under division (A)(1) of this section or the attorney general determines that the eligibility requirements imposed by that license-issuing state for that license are substantially comparable to the eligibility requirements for a concealed handgun license issued under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code, the license issued by the other license-issuing state shall be recognized in this state, shall be accepted and valid in this state, and grants the person the same right to carry a concealed handgun in this state as a person who was issued a concealed handgun license under section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.
However, I would be very concerned if he is stopped that a LEO may not give a rip that he has an AZ license since his OH license shows suspended. It's a risk, and I don't know how much of one or how to mitigate it. Lawyer familiar with the situation on speed dial? Someone smarter than me needs to opine here...
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- schmieg
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
It may just be a matter of time before Arizona requests its license back. I imagine the paperwork just hasn't been processed yet.Chuck wrote:I want to relate a telephone call I had today.
A 74 year old man had a "psychotic episode a few months ago. He is on anti-anxiety medicine and his doctor was adjusting / switching his meds and he kinda went berserk one night. Bottom line is one shot speaker in the basement. He lives outside of any town, and has no recollection of the event.
Cops were called, they took his gun, CHLs, and gave him a free ride to the psychic hospital, and after his three days, he signed himself in for two more, and then was released.
He lives in Montgomery County and his CHL' comes from Greene County and the State of Arizona. Montgomery County returned his gun promptly, and Arizona returned his out of state CHL when he sent them a copy of the case dismissal. Greene County sent him a letter saying his CHL was suspended due to "being arrested, charged, indicted, or convicted" of a disqualifying offense, and if the case was resolved satisfactory, it would be reinstated.
They met with the sheriff and he is no refusing to reinstate the CHL, saying he "isn't comfortable" doing so. we (they) are now working on establishing a paper trail of this refusal with a formal request for what statute he is citing for it. He did tell them that if they could get a doctor to say in writing that it would never happen again, he would reinstate it.
My question is, can he carry on his Arizona CHL while this is getting worked out?
-- Mike
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
- Chuck
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
Arizona already returned his license when he sent them paperwork on the dismissal.
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
- schmieg
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
And will probably request it back when they learn of the suspension of his Ohio license.Chuck wrote:Arizona already returned his license when he sent them paperwork on the dismissal.
-- Mike
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
- Chuck
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
I see
(sometimes I'm slow)
(sometimes I'm slow)
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
- JustaShooter
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
Any particular reason you think so? As far as I can tell, AZ does not have a requirement for a valid license from ones state of residence for their AZ non-resident license to be valid. They presumably already knew his OH license was suspended when the AZ license was suspended and did not require he show that the OH license was reinstated when he submitted proof that the charge was dismissed to get the AZ license reinstated. On what grounds would AZ revoke his license?schmieg wrote:And will probably request it back when they learn of the suspension of his Ohio license.Chuck wrote:Arizona already returned his license when he sent them paperwork on the dismissal.
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
Grounds? I'm still trying to figure out what (legal) grounds his Ohio license was suspended for, or not being reinstated.JustaShooter wrote:Any particular reason you think so? As far as I can tell, AZ does not have a requirement for a valid license from ones state of residence for their AZ non-resident license to be valid. They presumably already knew his OH license was suspended when the AZ license was suspended and did not require he show that the OH license was reinstated when he submitted proof that the charge was dismissed to get the AZ license reinstated. On what grounds would AZ revoke his license?schmieg wrote:And will probably request it back when they learn of the suspension of his Ohio license.Chuck wrote:Arizona already returned his license when he sent them paperwork on the dismissal.
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
This is the real question.M-Quigley wrote:Grounds? I'm still trying to figure out what (legal) grounds his Ohio license was suspended for, or not being reinstated.JustaShooter wrote:Any particular reason you think so? As far as I can tell, AZ does not have a requirement for a valid license from ones state of residence for their AZ non-resident license to be valid. They presumably already knew his OH license was suspended when the AZ license was suspended and did not require he show that the OH license was reinstated when he submitted proof that the charge was dismissed to get the AZ license reinstated. On what grounds would AZ revoke his license?schmieg wrote: And will probably request it back when they learn of the suspension of his Ohio license.
-- Mike
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand
- JustaShooter
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
I understand what you are saying. However, the thing about them not having legal grounds is that you generally have legal remedies to deal with the issue.M-Quigley wrote:Grounds?
The original suspension appears to me to have been legal, but the failure to reinstate it is not. I fully expect Chuck & Co. will be able to resolve it for exactly that reason.M-Quigley wrote:I'm still trying to figure out what (legal) grounds his Ohio license was suspended for, or not being reinstated.
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- Chuck
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
I hope so. They are a delightful couple, but elderly and on a fixed income. They don't have a lot of money for lawyers.
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
The only reason I can’t think of for Ohio (or in his case the sheriff’s office that issued the license) is the original three day psychiatric hold. Question 14b on the CHL application asks if you’ve ever been placed on a psychiatric hold, which he was
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
This guy is backschmieg wrote:This is the real question.M-Quigley wrote: Grounds? I'm still trying to figure out what (legal) grounds his Ohio license was suspended for, or not being reinstated.
Is there an appeals process for a suspension?
Can someone point me to the paperwork for that?
Ain't activism fun?
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
"Associate with men of good quality if you esteem your own reputation; for it is better to be alone than in bad company. " - George Washington
"I am only one, but I am one. I cannot do everything, but I can do something.
And because I can not do everything, I will not refuse to do the something I can do.
What I can do, I should do. And what I should do, by the grace of GOD, I will do."- Edward Everett Hale (descendant of Nathan Hale)
- DontTreadOnMe
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
Is it suspended or revoked? What is the official reasoning in the letter from the sheriff's office which was sent by certified mail, return receipt requested, at the licensee's last known address, as required by law?
For suspensions, 2923.128(A)(3) requires:
For suspensions, 2923.128(A)(3) requires:
On the other hand if it's been revoked then 2923.128(B)(2) applies:Upon becoming aware of an arrest, charge, or protection order described in division (A)(1)(a) of this section with respect to a licensee who was issued a concealed handgun license, or a conviction of or plea of guilty to a misdemeanor offense described in division (A)(2)(a) of this section with respect to a licensee who was issued a concealed handgun license and with respect to which division (A)(2)(c) of this section does not apply, subject to division (C) of this section, the sheriff who issued the licensee's license shall notify the licensee, by certified mail, return receipt requested, at the licensee's last known residence address that the license has been suspended and that the licensee is required to surrender the license at the sheriff's office within ten days of the date on which the notice was mailed. If the suspension is pursuant to division (A)(2) of this section, the notice shall identify the date on which the suspension ends.
In either case the sheriff is required to provide official written notice by certified mail. If he hasn't done so already point out the law requires it. Until he provides written reasons you can't appeal. If he won't do what's legally required then getting a lawyer involved will be unavoidable. My 2c.Upon becoming aware of any circumstance listed in division (B)(1) of this section that applies to a particular licensee who was issued a concealed handgun license, subject to division (C) of this section, the sheriff who issued the license to the licensee shall notify the licensee, by certified mail, return receipt requested, at the licensee's last known residence address that the license is subject to revocation and that the licensee may come to the sheriff's office and contest the sheriff's proposed revocation within fourteen days of the date on which the notice was mailed. After the fourteen-day period and after consideration of any information that the licensee provides during that period, if the sheriff determines on the basis of the information of which the sheriff is aware that the licensee is described in division (B)(1) of this section and no longer satisfies the requirements described in division (D)(1) of section 2923.125 of the Revised Code that are applicable to the licensee's type of license, the sheriff shall revoke the license, notify the licensee of that fact, and require the licensee to surrender the license. Upon revoking the license, the sheriff also shall comply with division (H) of section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.
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Re: Revoked CHL, no charges
As I see it they suspended his license due to the charges that were filed. The suspension SHOULD have ended when the charges were dropped.
But the Sheriff seems to have decided upon a perpetual suspension based not on statute but on his own gut feelings. To a degree he may be covering his rear end, if he is forced to reinstate then his hands are clean if something bad happens ??
Bill
But the Sheriff seems to have decided upon a perpetual suspension based not on statute but on his own gut feelings. To a degree he may be covering his rear end, if he is forced to reinstate then his hands are clean if something bad happens ??
Bill
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