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VA Hospital

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:07 pm
by Fiveshot
Is it legal to conceal carry in VA parking garage.

Re: VA Hospital

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 1:55 pm
by sodbuster95
If you're referring to a VA parking facility that is located on the grounds of the VA facility (such as the VA Hospital up in Ann Arbor) or which is otherwise owned or leased by the VA, then the answer is "no", it is not legal to possess a firearm in the parking garage. That is federal property and you cannot carry (concealed or otherwise) or leave your firearm in your vehicle. In addition to 18 USC § 930, there are specific VA regulations that apply and which are equally enforceable under federal criminal statutes.

Your options are to not carry your firearm or to park outside the limits of the VA property and leave your firearm in your vehicle. Obviously, option #2 is more readily accomplished at some VA facilities than others.

Re: VA Hospital

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:11 pm
by Fiveshot
Well that sucks. I have to drive someone to the VA Wade Park Hospital in Cleveland. The neighborhood I need to drive through is one of the most dangerous in Ohio. Parking off the property in not an option, so looks like I will not be carrying that day. Thanks for the information.

Re: VA Hospital

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 2:22 pm
by JustaShooter
It sure seems like

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
...
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.


Really ought to allow someone with a CHL to possess a handgun in such a facility. Not saying it does, and not encouraging anyone to become the test case, but still...

Re: VA Hospital

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:25 pm
by TSiWRX
Fiveshot wrote:Well that sucks. I have to drive someone to the VA Wade Park Hospital in Cleveland. The neighborhood I need to drive through is one of the most dangerous in Ohio. Parking off the property in not an option, so looks like I will not be carrying that day. Thanks for the information.


Can you detour through Cleveland Heights/University Heights, come down the hill via Mayfield (Little Italy)?

This will snake you through "Uptown" with minimal exposure (and through a relatively "good" - or at least well-policed - portion of it) via north-westbound (Mayfield "dead ends" into) Ford Road past the CWRU Business/Law Schools, and then westbound via East Blvd. past the Botanical Gardens/Western Reserve Historical Society (the VAMC will then be on your right, before you get to the circle).

Re: VA Hospital

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 5:31 pm
by Brian D.
JustaShooter wrote:It sure seems like

(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
...
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.


Really ought to allow someone with a CHL to possess a handgun in such a facility. Not saying it does, and not encouraging anyone to become the test case, but still...


The US Postal Service has very similar "with the exception of" weasel wording in their regulations. Again, nobody wants to be the test case.

Re: VA Hospital

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:10 pm
by djthomas
Brian D. wrote:The US Postal Service has very similar "with the exception of" weasel wording in their regulations. Again, nobody wants to be the test case.

Long ago someone much smarter than me posted a pretty compelling analysis of why these weasel words don't apply to the average Joe CHL and were never intended to. It may not have even been on this forum.

Essentially it comes down to what the phrase "incident to" means. It's pretty much the same as "inherently necessary as part of some official process at that time and in that place." A few scenarios were discussed:
1. Mailing a firearm from a post office. Assuming it is lawful for you to do so, e.g. FFL mailing a handgun then it is inherently necessary for you to possess the unloaded firearm in the post office for the purpose of mailing it.
2. Attending a gun safety class at the local ATF office (hey stranger things have happened) - if bringing a firearm is one of the course requirements then it is inherently necessary for you to possess it in that facility at the specified time. Presumably they'll tell you to keep it unloaded until you're on the range.
3. Bringing unloaded firearms into a US CBP office for the purpose of getting your Form 4457 completed - good to go because the officials have to verify serial numbers and whatnot.
4. Carrying for self defense - because (presumably) you are not engaged in actual self defense at the time you are in the facility you can't claim that it is inherently necessary for you to possess a firearm in that facility at that moment.

Back to OPs situation. Personal opinions aside, it is not inherently necessary for him to carry a firearm for the purpose of assisting another receive medical treatment at the VA.

Re: VA Hospital

PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 8:21 pm
by jeep45238
Federal property is a no go for any sort of possession.

Re: VA Hospital

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:20 pm
by Col Duke
jeep45238 wrote:Federal property is a no go for any sort of possession.


So that means I'm breaking the law by leaving my gun locked up in my car trunk in the parking lot of my local post office while buying stamps?

Re: VA Hospital

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 12:55 pm
by WY_Not
Technically, yes. Might be unlikely to get busted for it unless you do something else stupid but still a no go.

An easy way around it is to simply buy stamps elsewhere. A number of ATM's dispense them. They can be ordered online direct from USPS and delivered to your mailbox. Etc.
Col Duke wrote:
jeep45238 wrote:Federal property is a no go for any sort of possession.


So that means I'm breaking the law by leaving my gun locked up in my car trunk in the parking lot of my local post office while buying stamps?

Re: VA Hospital

PostPosted: Fri May 04, 2018 7:13 pm
by jeep45238
Col Duke wrote:
jeep45238 wrote:Federal property is a no go for any sort of possession.


So that means I'm breaking the law by leaving my gun locked up in my car trunk in the parking lot of my local post office while buying stamps?


It gets funky. Federal building is usually owned by the feds, and the actual property is usually owned by the state or the local govt.