VA Hospital

This forum is for discussion of general issues regarding Concealed Carry in your everyday life. This forum is not intended to be political or for discussing legislation.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Post Reply
User avatar
Fiveshot
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:24 pm

VA Hospital

Post by Fiveshot »

Is it legal to conceal carry in VA parking garage.
User avatar
sodbuster95
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 6954
Joined: Mon Dec 01, 2008 5:14 pm
Location: Maumee
Contact:

Re: VA Hospital

Post by sodbuster95 »

If you're referring to a VA parking facility that is located on the grounds of the VA facility (such as the VA Hospital up in Ann Arbor) or which is otherwise owned or leased by the VA, then the answer is "no", it is not legal to possess a firearm in the parking garage. That is federal property and you cannot carry (concealed or otherwise) or leave your firearm in your vehicle. In addition to 18 USC § 930, there are specific VA regulations that apply and which are equally enforceable under federal criminal statutes.

Your options are to not carry your firearm or to park outside the limits of the VA property and leave your firearm in your vehicle. Obviously, option #2 is more readily accomplished at some VA facilities than others.
NRA Benefactor Life Member

Information posted in these forums is my personal opinion only. It is not intended, nor should it be construed, as legal advice.
User avatar
Fiveshot
Posts: 47
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2011 2:24 pm

Re: VA Hospital

Post by Fiveshot »

Well that sucks. I have to drive someone to the VA Wade Park Hospital in Cleveland. The neighborhood I need to drive through is one of the most dangerous in Ohio. Parking off the property in not an option, so looks like I will not be carrying that day. Thanks for the information.
User avatar
JustaShooter
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5800
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
Location: Akron/Canton Area

Re: VA Hospital

Post by JustaShooter »

It sure seems like
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
...
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
Really ought to allow someone with a CHL to possess a handgun in such a facility. Not saying it does, and not encouraging anyone to become the test case, but still...
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
User avatar
TSiWRX
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 6676
Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:33 pm
Location: Cleveland/Shaker Heights

Re: VA Hospital

Post by TSiWRX »

Fiveshot wrote:Well that sucks. I have to drive someone to the VA Wade Park Hospital in Cleveland. The neighborhood I need to drive through is one of the most dangerous in Ohio. Parking off the property in not an option, so looks like I will not be carrying that day. Thanks for the information.
Can you detour through Cleveland Heights/University Heights, come down the hill via Mayfield (Little Italy)?

This will snake you through "Uptown" with minimal exposure (and through a relatively "good" - or at least well-policed - portion of it) via north-westbound (Mayfield "dead ends" into) Ford Road past the CWRU Business/Law Schools, and then westbound via East Blvd. past the Botanical Gardens/Western Reserve Historical Society (the VAMC will then be on your right, before you get to the circle).
Allen - Shaker Heights, Ohio
Brian D.
Posts: 16229
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: VA Hospital

Post by Brian D. »

JustaShooter wrote:It sure seems like
(d) Subsection (a) shall not apply to—
...
(3) the lawful carrying of firearms or other dangerous weapons in a Federal facility incident to hunting or other lawful purposes.
Really ought to allow someone with a CHL to possess a handgun in such a facility. Not saying it does, and not encouraging anyone to become the test case, but still...
The US Postal Service has very similar "with the exception of" weasel wording in their regulations. Again, nobody wants to be the test case.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
User avatar
djthomas
Posts: 5961
Joined: Sun Jan 22, 2006 11:09 am

Re: VA Hospital

Post by djthomas »

Brian D. wrote:The US Postal Service has very similar "with the exception of" weasel wording in their regulations. Again, nobody wants to be the test case.
Long ago someone much smarter than me posted a pretty compelling analysis of why these weasel words don't apply to the average Joe CHL and were never intended to. It may not have even been on this forum.

Essentially it comes down to what the phrase "incident to" means. It's pretty much the same as "inherently necessary as part of some official process at that time and in that place." A few scenarios were discussed:
1. Mailing a firearm from a post office. Assuming it is lawful for you to do so, e.g. FFL mailing a handgun then it is inherently necessary for you to possess the unloaded firearm in the post office for the purpose of mailing it.
2. Attending a gun safety class at the local ATF office (hey stranger things have happened) - if bringing a firearm is one of the course requirements then it is inherently necessary for you to possess it in that facility at the specified time. Presumably they'll tell you to keep it unloaded until you're on the range.
3. Bringing unloaded firearms into a US CBP office for the purpose of getting your Form 4457 completed - good to go because the officials have to verify serial numbers and whatnot.
4. Carrying for self defense - because (presumably) you are not engaged in actual self defense at the time you are in the facility you can't claim that it is inherently necessary for you to possess a firearm in that facility at that moment.

Back to OPs situation. Personal opinions aside, it is not inherently necessary for him to carry a firearm for the purpose of assisting another receive medical treatment at the VA.
User avatar
jeep45238
Posts: 5925
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:29 am
Location: SW Ohio
Contact:

Re: VA Hospital

Post by jeep45238 »

Federal property is a no go for any sort of possession.
http://shootingfordollars.org Where Firearms and Finances meet.

You can't truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless.
-Important distinction
Col Duke
Posts: 43
Joined: Tue Nov 08, 2016 5:02 pm

Re: VA Hospital

Post by Col Duke »

jeep45238 wrote:Federal property is a no go for any sort of possession.
So that means I'm breaking the law by leaving my gun locked up in my car trunk in the parking lot of my local post office while buying stamps?
User avatar
WY_Not
OFCC Patron Member
OFCC Patron Member
Posts: 2435
Joined: Wed May 02, 2007 10:15 pm
Location: Miami County, OH
Contact:

Re: VA Hospital

Post by WY_Not »

Technically, yes. Might be unlikely to get busted for it unless you do something else stupid but still a no go.

An easy way around it is to simply buy stamps elsewhere. A number of ATM's dispense them. They can be ordered online direct from USPS and delivered to your mailbox. Etc.
Col Duke wrote:
jeep45238 wrote:Federal property is a no go for any sort of possession.
So that means I'm breaking the law by leaving my gun locked up in my car trunk in the parking lot of my local post office while buying stamps?
Learn how Project Appleseed is supporting freedom through Marksmanship and Heritage clinics.
Samuel Adams wrote:If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, go home from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or your arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.
User avatar
jeep45238
Posts: 5925
Joined: Sun Feb 18, 2007 10:29 am
Location: SW Ohio
Contact:

Re: VA Hospital

Post by jeep45238 »

Col Duke wrote:
jeep45238 wrote:Federal property is a no go for any sort of possession.
So that means I'm breaking the law by leaving my gun locked up in my car trunk in the parking lot of my local post office while buying stamps?
It gets funky. Federal building is usually owned by the feds, and the actual property is usually owned by the state or the local govt.
http://shootingfordollars.org Where Firearms and Finances meet.

You can't truly call yourself peaceful unless you are capable of great violence. If you're not capable of violence, you're not peaceful, you're harmless.
-Important distinction
Post Reply