Ohioans For Concealed Carry Discussion Forums

Hi everyone,

I was wondering if anybody has any knowledge of for how long a juvenile domestic violence conviction will follow somebody until they're an adult?

I will spare many of the details, but the situation is as follows. 13 year old boy has fallen off a cliff mentally over the last year, has progressed through destructive behavior with substances, to threatened and attempted suicide including multiple hospital stays, to a few days ago taking his 1 year old brother away from his mother, threatened a violent outcome unless his video game systems were returned, to eventually being held at gunpoint by the police in his own home while holding a knife.

Through all these events, he's remarkably clear headed and can be communicated with, even at gun point he was asking the officers tactical questions such as why does one have a gun and the other have a taser? My opinion is that there is a severe mental condition that is so far beyond the understanding and capability of the professional counseling he has been routinely a part of, coupled with prescribed medication, that I am trying to consider the long term outcome. Everything that can possibly be done, in front of pressing charges, has been attempted. The kid has a great extended family, is in a good school district, and both him and his parents have gone through counseling and intervention, as well as coordination with the school and local police, in other words there is no burying their heads in the sand about how serious a problem this is. My opinion is that he can't understand right from wrong, and has no ability to feel any empathy towards another human being if they're in the way of what he wants. Truly sad and frightening.

Since it's so immediate, they haven't thought through pressing charges or doing anything except removing him from the home to live with a grandparent to keep the other two younger kids safe. During several episodes he has scoured the house for any weapons, I had my friend move those to my house quite some time ago based on the instability of his step-son. I am wondering/hoping how a DV charge relative to this type of offense would follow him when he's 18 and onto 21. Hopefully he gets his mind right and can become a productive member of society, but this ability to be violent at such a young age is something that frightens me to death. If these personality traits remain or progress, or even back down a little, I feel this situation is applicable to the current legislation regarding firearm restrictions based on DV convictions.

The flip side is that pressing charges such as kidnapping, assault, etc. will further strain their relationship, potentially past the point of reconciliation. What I'm wondering is is there a DV charge/conviction that can follow him once he's an adult? Basically is it worth it, if they press charges but it's either sealed as a juvenile record by default, or likely to be done so because of his young age, then the prevention to future firearm purchases that it could possibly offer is moot.

Any help, prayers, or advice would be appreciated.

You have my prayers. Beyond that, I can only offer the following:

Ole_grizzly wrote:My opinion is that he can't understand right from wrong, and has no ability to feel any empathy towards another human being if they're in the way of what he wants.

You sound like you are describing a sociopath. If so, you have my deepest sympathy. My understanding is that there is no evidence that shows that a sociopath can change, and there is nothing that has been proven effective as a treatment for a sociopath.

My sympathies for the family and child. There is not always enough help for those with mental health issues, and even less for children in that situation. Unfortunately, therapy (talking) is not always enough - especially when there is the potential for a chemical imbalance.

My advice would be to have the parents take the boy to the ER of a local children's hospital. If the boy is overly combative, then request police crisis intervention (if the local department has such officers - I know Columbus Police do). It really sounds like the boy needs a psychiatric hold, and getting that through an ER is the fastest method. From there, the psychiatric team will evaluate the child to determine if he needs to be admitted for longer evaluation and care. This is where the parents have to do the hardest part: admit everything that has gone on with the child, and be as forthcoming as possible. The evaluation team will take it all into account, so being brutally honest is the best step in getting this boy some further help.

From here, the therapy will continue - for quite a while. Regardless of the strained relationship that parents think they might be forming - the truth is, at least based on your descriptions, that strain is already there. Rock bottom and all that - it sounds like it is here now for this boy and his family.

Criminal charges are not necessarily the answer to this problem. The boy could get institutionalized with no real help coming from that system. The better path is to force the child into the mental health practices, including psychiatry, while the parents have that option. In 5 short years - they lose all options.

In terms of the record, it all depends on the age, situation, charges, ect. You might take a look at this doc from Capital Law School: Juvenile Records

My heart goes out to this boy, his parents and everyone affected by this sad situation.

Regarding the question of how long a DV conviction and its attendant firearms restrictions will follow him, I don't have the answer but I doubt it would really matter. Sadly, nothing short of institutionalization can keep some people from obtaining firearms and using them to commit mayhem. This may be such a case.

After seeing this type of thing happen I know it can be very hard for all involved, you have my prayers.

Please council them to not take the boy to the grandparents as that could end badly for both the child and the grandparent.

Ole_grizzly wrote:Hi everyone,

<snip>
Since it's so immediate, they haven't thought through pressing charges or doing anything except removing him from the home to live with a grandparent to keep the other two younger kids safe. During several episodes he has scoured the house for any weapons, I had my friend move those to my house quite some time ago based on the instability of his step-son. I am wondering/hoping how a DV charge relative to this type of offense would follow him when he's 18 and onto 21. Hopefully he gets his mind right and can become a productive member of society, but this ability to be violent at such a young age is something that frightens me to death. If these personality traits remain or progress, or even back down a little, I feel this situation is applicable to the current legislation regarding firearm restrictions based on DV convictions.

The flip side is that pressing charges such as kidnapping, assault, etc. will further strain their relationship, potentially past the point of reconciliation. What I'm wondering is is there a DV charge/conviction that can follow him once he's an adult? Basically is it worth it, if they press charges but it's either sealed as a juvenile record by default, or likely to be done so because of his young age, then the prevention to future firearm purchases that it could possibly offer is moot.

Any help, prayers, or advice would be appreciated.

At this point, worrying about future firearm possession should not really be a consideration. His family needs to be protected from his actions, and he needs to be protected from self-harm.

I cannot even imagine the pain and anguish this family is going through.

I’m as pro-2A as any but putting my LEO hat on for a minute, the others before me have given good advice. I’ve seen this before. Whether or not some action today will prevent him from legally owning weapons in the future is simply not a consideration. Even if he avoids criminal charges sooner or later he is going to be subject to an involuntary commit order which will have the same effect of prohibiting future firearm possession.

Don’t let the concern for whether his gun rights might be impacted prevent what needs to be done from being done today.

I also second the “don’t pawn this off on Grandma and grandpa” sentiment. For behavior as described a change of scenery will make no difference to him and will likely result in increased risk to them. I don’t wish this situation on my worst enemy.

Thank you all for the advice and sympathy, I’ll be sure to pass it on. There’s been no more violence but continued destructive behavior, including getting suspended from school and multiple kids and parents wanting to not have a class with him.

I was mainly interested in the longer term consequences because this kid has the ability to say to adults what they want to hear, and therefore deflect some of the more severe diagnosis’ and discipline. I don’t mean to be so cryptic, but basically he can seem calm and in control enough to avoid being committed with a psychiatric hold, or at least has up to date. I think it’s appropriate they consider a DV charge for many reasons, but I just didn’t know how the laws work as he transitions to an adult. Sounds like it could follow him but he could get it sealed or expunged if he changes or hides his behavior.

And as all of you mentioned how bad a situation this is, I believe I’ve seen a glimpse of what hell is like, where grief, rage, and fear rule a family.

Video cameras or at the very least audio recordings might be very useful if he is as manipulative as mentioned.

JustaShooter wrote:You sound like you are describing a sociopath.

"Sociopath" is mostly a pop-culture term, generally not used by mental health professionals. There is no diagnosis of "sociopath" in the DSM-5 (the book used throughout the world as the authoritative guide to the diagnosis of mental disorders).

Much of the child's behavior, as described by the original poster, seems to be consistent with Antisocial Personality Disorder, but I think that most professionals won't make that a formal diagnosis until the patient is at least 18 years old. I suppose we all agree that mental health therapy is critically important for this child, and could make the difference between life and death. In my opinion, future gun rights should be the last thing on the OP's mind.

Just so you know, I'm not a doctor or mental health professional. I wish you and your family all the best.

Dr. D.

The common features of a psychopath and sociopath lie in their shared diagnosis — antisocial personality disorder. The DSM-5 defines antisocial personality as someone who has 3 or more of the following traits:

Regularly breaks or flouts the law
Constantly lies and deceives others
Is impulsive and doesn’t plan ahead
Can be prone to fighting and aggressiveness
Has little regard for the safety of others
Irresponsible, can’t meet financial obligations
Doesn’t feel remorse or guilt

In both cases, some signs or symptoms are nearly always present before age 15.
By the time a person is an adult, they are well on their way to becoming a psychopath or sociopath.