Question re: church carry

This forum is for discussion of general issues regarding Concealed Carry in your everyday life. This forum is not intended to be political or for discussing legislation.

Moderators: Coordinators, Moderators

Re: Question re: church carry

Postby rainmaker » Thu Nov 16, 2017 9:23 am

Here's a couple resources that you can use relating to church security: The Church Security Alliance, churchsecurityalliance.com, run by Glen Evans and Jack Justice. They have a lot of info on setting up a team and training, as well as reports of what has been going on. I know Glen will respond pretty quickly to any email if you have questions. Carl Chinn, carlchinn.com, a security expert with statistics and reports of deadly force incidents against churches on his site. Jimmy Meeks' Sheepdog Safety training should have info you can use, too. Just a couple places to start. Best of luck and a salute to you for stepping up on this.
Steve
NRA member (long, long time)
NMLRA member (even longer)
OFCC member, BFA member, NRA RSO
User avatar
rainmaker
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
 
Posts: 363
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2005 9:18 am
Location: Middletown, Ohio

Re: Question re: church carry

Postby NealClemens » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:16 am

The conversation on this one was interesting. Last Sunday, I called all 8 leaders and asked the same series of questions.

1) If you were outside of the sanctuary during a morning service and heard what you were very confident were gun shots coming from the sanctuary, what is the first thing you would do? Almost unanimous answer- call 911.

2) What is 911 going to do? Universal answer- send the police.

3) What are the police going to bring with them? Universal answer- a gun

4) What will the police do with their guns? Unanimous answer- kill the shooter.

Congratulations- you have just proven that you are not as much of a pacifist as you may wish to profess to be. If you are willing to put in motion a series of actions that you have a high degree of confidence will result in the use of force, how can you deny me the opportunity to protect my family and save time (and possibly lives) by being able to respond far more quickly? We are at the very far end of the county and are easily 15 minutes from the Sheriff's station.

When we meet in a few weeks, I plan to request one of three things from the board-

1) Permission to carry my firearm in church.

2) A formal motion by the board forbading calling 911 in an emergency as it would likely set in motion a series of events that our pacifistic position is fundamentally opposed to.

3) An intellectually honest reconcilliation of any other response that they may offer.

I can look at every person around that table who answered the questions above as they did and ask how we can call another human being, ask them to do what we ourselves profess to be unwilling to do (and risk their life in the process), and then condemn the use of force even after the fact. How can you follow that "logic" and still forbid someone from being able to react and have at least an opportunity to limit the carnage by being prepared to respond more quickly? It should make for a very interesting conversation.

Thanks for the references. I will let you know how it goes.

Neal
NealClemens
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sun Jan 30, 2011 11:20 pm

Re: Question re: church carry

Postby xDeaconx » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:20 am

I am undertaking this currently with my church. We have an attorney that is also an Elder and supporter of conceal carry. As a Deacon of the church I have come to realize the complexity of the issue. The church has a non-vocalized policy that we are okay with church members carrying at the church. Anyhow, I also have access (actually live in the same town and run in the same circles) to two representatives at the state level. I am working on putting together a meeting to ask them to take what is being discussed to the State house. I have read through and and would like to take some of these talking points to them. Are the posters in this thread okay with me using this information?
xDeaconx
 
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 7:56 am

Re: Question re: church carry

Postby Brian D. » Sat Nov 25, 2017 4:07 pm

xDeaconx wrote:I am undertaking this currently with my church. We have an attorney that is also an Elder and supporter of conceal carry. As a Deacon of the church I have come to realize the complexity of the issue. The church has a non-vocalized policy that we are okay with church members carrying at the church. Anyhow, I also have access (actually live in the same town and run in the same circles) to two representatives at the state level. I am working on putting together a meeting to ask them to take what is being discussed to the State house. I have read through and and would like to take some of these talking points to them. Are the posters in this thread okay with me using this information?


This forum is all about sharing ideas and information. Can't imagine why any participants would object.
Quit worrying, hide your gun well, shut up, and CARRY that handgun!

********************************************************************************
1911 and Browning Hi Power Enthusianado.
Brian D.
 
Posts: 14507
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 8:42 pm
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Question re: church carry

Postby 3FULLMAGS+1 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:05 pm

NealClemens wrote:Well, I got a call today from the chair of our church board. I approached them to request permission to carry after the events of a week ago Sunday in Texas. The good news is that I was surprised- we have attended a Mennonite (pacifist) church for more than 20 years. I and my wife were raised Baptist and Mennonites are theological cousins with the exception of the peace issue. I expected them to dismiss the request out of hand, as the three members of the primary governing body were raised in the church and the pacifist view is very closely held by them. I was told that they were not comfortable deciding either way- so they invited me to the full leadership meeting at the beginning of December.

My question is whether anyone here has any advice on finding helpful resources in terms of statistics and other unbiased information that could be compiled and presented to the board to make the case for why having at least one member carry in the service when your congregation is in the middle of no where may make sense. Any input would be helpful and appreciated.


After reading your post, I'd say , (if your attending a Mennonite church and depending on how "pacifist" that particular church is), You have an uphill battle waiting for you.
I attended a Mennonite church for a little over two yrs. , many years ago. I even dated a girl from another Mennonite church back then and on one occasion , the conversation turned to defending ones self and using a gun to do it. I kid you not, she was against using deadly force to protect her very own children if she were to ever have any ! :shock: :roll:

Thing is, some people worship their denominations teachings over what scripture really teaches, but that's just my opinion and another subject for "another" forum.

When it comes to "denominations", again, IMO, what their "denomination" teaches, will be ALL that matters and no amount of "helpful resources in terms of statistics and other unbiased information".......(including commonsense)....... may change their minds.

In the church I attend, (Baptist style), permission was given to all who posses an Ohio lic by way of written permission put in the minutes at a deacons meeting years ago but it was kept hush, hush so's not to upset those who would be opposed to it .
Darrel
They say the best "Home Remedy" for "tyranny" is....."LEAD POISONING".
3FULLMAGS+1
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
 
Posts: 596
Joined: Fri May 11, 2012 7:01 pm
Location: S.W. corner of stark. co.

Previous

Return to Ohio Concealed Carry Discussion

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests