Inquiry of Minor Record and Arrest without Conviction

This forum is for discussion of general issues regarding Concealed Carry in your everyday life. This forum is not intended to be political or for discussing legislation.

Moderators: Chuck, Mustang380gal, Coordinators, Moderators

Post Reply
Tiberius
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:10 am
Location: SW Ohio

Inquiry of Minor Record and Arrest without Conviction

Post by Tiberius »

I would like to make an inquiry for a friend who is interested in obtaining his CHL. Any input will be greatly appreciated.

The backstory: my friend had some run-ins with the law back in the 80s and 90s. He was convicted as a minor for felony B&E back in 1985 when he was 17, which resulted in him being sent to a youth center in Columbus for about 6 months. He also got into a fight in 92 and was arrested for felonious assault. The FA charge was reduced to a misdemeanor, and eventually dropped altogether, but if you look up his name at the Butler County Clerk of Courts, the felonious assault still appears on the county website. He has had a clean record since 92, and has no adult convictions.

He took the handgun proficiency class and was planning to submit the CHL application, but was not certain whether or not had to check “yes” for questions III (6) and IV (2) below.

Section III:
(6) Are you under indictment for or otherwise charged with a felony, or have you ever been convicted of or pleaded guilty to a felony, or have you ever been adjudicated as a delinquent child for committing an act that would be a felony if committed by an adult?

Section IV:
(2) Have you ever been convicted in any court of a felony, or any other crime, for which the judge could have imprisoned you for more than one year, even if you received a shorter sentence, including probation?


He called the Sheriff's department and spoke with the detective who preforms CHL interviews, and detective confirmed that his application would be denied.

Is this true? He definitely needs to get the FA arrest sealed, but is he really disqualified by a dropped charge and an offense as a minor from over 25 years ago? I think he can legally check “no” for all of the “are you now or have you been convicted of..” type questions, but IANAL.

Also, can someone please explain how juvenile records are sealed and expunged? I have always been under the impression that juvenile records were sealed when the offender turned 18, and automatically expunged when they turn 23, assuming no other charges are/were pending, but reading “ORC 2151.356” I see no mention of expungement.

Thanks in advance any and all input and incite
SMMAssociates
Posts: 9557
Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 1:36 am
Location: Youngstown OH

Re: Inquiry of Minor Record and Arrest without Conviction

Post by SMMAssociates »

Tiberius wrote: Thanks in advance any and all input and incite
Tiberius:

It's "insight", not "incite", but your choice probably would be more fun.... :D

I don't think you can "expunge" a record anymore, and I'm not sure that the automatic age-out thing happens anymore, but you can still get some records sealed. IMHO, all of this is old enough that it should be possible, although I don't think the Sheriff would look at them anyway due to age.

We've got some legal eagles on board, and somebody should be able to comment for you....

Generally, old convictions for anything but DV, drugs, and an assault on a Police Officer, should be off the table for licensing consideration. You can seal old misdemeanor drug convictions, too. Being charged with a felony in any of these areas is not likely to be treated as a conviction. DV has it's own goofy rules. A misdemeanor DV seems to last longer, and the Courts have been holding that Lautenberg applies to convictions that might be DV even though nothing in the case expressly says it. I.E., push your hand through the kitchen plaster and get convicted of some kind of property crime just might qualify as DV if the spouse was present. Kinda case-by-case there....

That Deputy may have just erred, or tried to avoid getting blamed if the Sheriff denies later, after your friend paid for the course and application. It seems to me that actually taking the course and submitting the application might be the only way to fly. You still may need to get a lawyer involved even that way, but IMHO (IANAL!) it may be easier for the Sheriff to quietly approve....

Regards,
Stu.

(Why write a quick note when you can write a novel?)

(Why do those who claim to wish to protect me feel that the best way to do that is to disarm me?)

יזכר לא עד פעם
User avatar
JustaShooter
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5800
Joined: Thu Feb 07, 2013 3:08 pm
Location: Akron/Canton Area

Re: Inquiry of Minor Record and Arrest without Conviction

Post by JustaShooter »

Tiberius wrote:The backstory: my friend had some run-ins with the law back in the 80s and 90s. He was convicted as a minor for felony B&E back in 1985 when he was 17,
I believe that is the issue, not the charges that were dropped. As SMMAssociates said, I don't think the automatic expungement happens anymore. I also don't think you can get adult records expunged these days, only sealed, but I seem to recall that you can still get offenses committed as a minor expunged. Either way, he has to do something to get his record cleared up, and *may* need to do something more than get it sealed or expunged to get his firearm rights restored. Others may be able to provide better guidance, but I suspect this is going to take a little money and a lawyer...
Christian, Husband, Father
NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Range Safety Officer
NRA Certified Pistol & Rifle Instructor

Want to become more active with OFCC and help fight for your rights? Click Here!
Tiberius
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:10 am
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Inquiry of Minor Record and Arrest without Conviction

Post by Tiberius »

Thanks for the helpful insight, incited by my poor grammar :D (actually I’m going to blame it on spell check :mrgreen: )
SMMAssociates wrote:I don't think you can "expunge" a record anymore, and I'm not sure that the automatic age-out thing happens anymore
JustaShooter wrote:As SMMAssociates said, I don't think the automatic expungement happens anymore
Do you guys know when the law was changed, removing automatic expungement for juvenile offences? If the law was changed in the late 90s, for instance, wouldn't his record have already been expunged?
User avatar
JediSkipdogg
Posts: 10257
Joined: Sun Jul 27, 2008 3:03 pm
Location: Batavia
Contact:

Re: Inquiry of Minor Record and Arrest without Conviction

Post by JediSkipdogg »

I work in law enforcement so I'll throw some info out there on juvenile records.

I'm not aware that they were ever automatically expunged. I've seen juvenile records from the 70s still exist.

Juveniles are the only class that can have records expunged. Anyone else, it is sealing only in Ohio. Sure, courts may interchange the two words, but legally speaking, juveniles seal or expunge, adults seal.

Now, for a Juvenile, one must apply for their record to be sealed first. The is explained in 2151.356 Sealing of juvenile court records. Then after the records are sealed one can go to 2151.358 Expungement of sealed records.

Hope that helps a bit.
Carrying Concealed Handguns - Signage Answers

Ohio Concealed Carry Classes in S/W Ohio
http://www.ProShootersTraining.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am not a lawyer. My answers are based on research, knowledge, and are generally backed up with facts, the Ohio Revised Code, or the United States Code.
User avatar
MyWifeSaidYes
OFCC Coordinator
OFCC Coordinator
Posts: 5449
Joined: Tue Feb 16, 2010 12:59 pm
Location: Central Ohio
Contact:

Re: Inquiry of Minor Record and Arrest without Conviction

Post by MyWifeSaidYes »

Waaayyyy back in the mid-80's, the Juvenile Court in Franklin County had a form for "ex-juveniles" to fill out to request expungement of their juvenile records. (Don't ask me how I know. :wink: )

That's where I would start...call the clerk of your Juvenile Court and ask about expunging juvenile records. They may tell you to get a lawyer OR they may have a simple form to fill out.
MyWifeSaidYes
Tiberius
OFCC Member
OFCC Member
Posts: 12
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2016 11:10 am
Location: SW Ohio

Re: Inquiry of Minor Record and Arrest without Conviction

Post by Tiberius »

Thanks for the input guys. It is greatly appreciated :)
glocksmith
Posts: 3918
Joined: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:04 am
Location: Cincinnati/SW Ohio

Re: Inquiry of Minor Record and Arrest without Conviction

Post by glocksmith »

MyWifeSaidYes wrote:Waaayyyy back in the mid-80's, the Juvenile Court in Franklin County had a form for "ex-juveniles" to fill out to request expungement of their juvenile records. (Don't ask me how I know. :wink: )
Ohh, I'm sure it's because your "friend" named "SWIM" got in trouble way, way back and needed an expungement. :lol:
Give em' Hell Pike!!!
Post Reply