Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

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Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby djom1cincy » Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:42 pm

In light of the recent arrest of the NFL player in sharronville. He was setting in his vehicle with the gun exposed. Cops are called and he's taken into custody. They charged him with illegal handling a firearm. I thought that law was changed a few years ago that it wouldn't apply if you had a chl. Am I wrong on the this and do the charges fit?
Video of said arrest.
Body camera footage of Adolphus Washington arrest
http://stgec-ausc.uplynk.com/80C078/aus ... beba_g.mp4
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Re: Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:26 pm

Even with a CHL you can't "Knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the person's hands or fingers in the motor vehicle at any time after the law enforcement officer begins approaching".

Of course that only applies if you are "stopped as a result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose ". Was he stopped as that term legally means? The video I saw doesn't show the start of the encounter, so I can't say.
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Re: Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby scottb » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:30 pm

Does he have a chl?
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Re: Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby djom1cincy » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:33 pm

DontTreadOnMe wrote:Even with a CHL you can't "Knowingly have contact with the loaded handgun by touching it with the person's hands or fingers in the motor vehicle at any time after the law enforcement officer begins approaching".

Of course that only applies if you are "stopped as a result of a traffic stop or a stop for another law enforcement purpose ". Was he stopped as that term legally means? The video I saw doesn't show the start of the encounter, so I can't say.

The officer stated he couldn't just sit in a vehicle with it on his lap which I thought you could. Now the problem may be that when the cops approached he tried hiding it.
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Re: Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby djom1cincy » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:34 pm

scottb wrote:Does he have a chl?

The officer stated that he did in fact have a ccw but wasn't allowed sitting in a vehicle with it on his lap.
Last edited by djom1cincy on Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Wed Jul 12, 2017 8:52 pm

I don't think he meant it that way. I took that as "it's dumb and dangerous" as opposed to him saying it's not legally allowed.

Of course it's possible the officer isn't up-to-date on the law.
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Re: Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby djom1cincy » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:16 pm

DontTreadOnMe wrote:I don't think he meant it that way. I took that as "it's dumb and dangerous" as opposed to him saying it's not legally allowed.

Of course it's possible the officer isn't up-to-date on the law.

So does the law bar ccw holders from handling a firearm in the car or am I correct that the law changed a few years back? As for trying to hide it as Leo approached is a different story and he's lucky to be alive.
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Re: Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby JustaShooter » Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:50 pm

djom1cincy wrote:
DontTreadOnMe wrote:I don't think he meant it that way. I took that as "it's dumb and dangerous" as opposed to him saying it's not legally allowed.

Of course it's possible the officer isn't up-to-date on the law.

So does the law bar ccw holders from handling a firearm in the car or am I correct that the law changed a few years back?

Correct, the law changed a few years back so it is no longer illegal under Ohio law to handle a firearm in a motor vehicle (except as mentioned above while an officer has stopped you for a law enforcement purpose).
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Re: Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby Thanlon23 » Sat Jul 22, 2017 4:17 pm

I'm going to guess that with it sitting on his lap, he was going to have to handle it to get his license, registration, or proof of insurance. The second he touched it without the officer instructing him to do so, he was in trouble.

I would never drive around with a loaded gun on my lap. If I had to slam the brakes I'd probably reach for the gun as it moved to fall off of my lap and that's just asking for an accidental discharge.
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Re: Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby DontTreadOnMe » Fri Sep 01, 2017 4:28 pm

Update: He was found not guilty. http://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/2048 ... ons-charge

I cannot find the exact reasoning for the verdict, or whether the judge even gave a reason beyond "the prosecution failed to show" but his lawyer did argue that he wasn't "stopped" and therefore not legally required to notify:
Washington's attorney Clyde Bennett told ESPN last month that he believed the charge was not appropriate because his client was not stopped by the police and was rather "one of many patrons" in the parking lot.
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Re: Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby Glock Rock » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:00 pm

Somewhat tangential to this when non-CHL holders are in the car (adult or child) legally does the firearm have to be inaccessible by them?
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Re: Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby Brian D. » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:16 pm

The firearm has to be in the control of the CH licensee. At least I believe that's the ORC wording.
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Re: Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby JustaShooter » Tue Jan 09, 2018 9:31 pm

Brian D. wrote:The firearm has to be in the control of the CH licensee. At least I believe that's the ORC wording.

It's a bit more grey than that... ORC 2923.12 says:

(B) No person shall knowingly transport or have a loaded firearm in a motor vehicle in such a manner that the firearm is accessible to the operator or any passenger without leaving the vehicle.

(C) No person shall knowingly transport or have a firearm in a motor vehicle, unless the person may lawfully possess that firearm under applicable law of this state or the United States, the firearm is unloaded, and the firearm is carried in one of the following ways:

...

(F)
(5) Divisions (B) and (C) of this section do not apply to a person who transports or possesses a handgun in a motor vehicle if, at the time of that transportation or possession, both of the following apply:

(a) The person transporting or possessing the handgun is either carrying a valid concealed handgun license or is an active duty member of the armed forces of the United States and is carrying a valid military identification card and documentation of successful completion of firearms training that meets or exceeds the training requirements described in division (G)(1) of section 2923.125 of the Revised Code.

(b) The person transporting or possessing the handgun is not knowingly in a place described in division (B) of section 2923.126 of the Revised Code.


So, you *could* read (F) (5) in such a way that it doesn't matter where the handgun is as long as there is a person with a CHL in the vehicle. I'm not planning on relying on Officer Friendly reading / understanding it in the same way. My recommendation is that the person with a CHL needs to be in control of the handgun if for no other reason than you could argue that they therefore can deny *access* to the non-licensed persons. But that's just me...
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Re: Illegally handling a firearm in vehicle with chl?

Postby Glock Rock » Sat Jan 13, 2018 1:24 pm

Got it - as I thought its a crap shoot until you get in front of the judge/jury. Thanks.
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